Stocking a 10-15 gallon: Bettas or Barbs?

[littletankbigworld]

I might upgrade my 5 gallon (once I sell all the babies) to a 10-15 gallon. A 12 gallon seems the most appealing at the moment, since I don't think the stand I have can hold a 15 gallon. I do not want any more mollies, platies, tetras, swordtails, etc. I would like either: a shoal of 4 or 5 tiger barbs, or a betta sorority with 5 or 6 girls. Any other suggestions? If I remember correctly, someone on this forum has a betta sorority. However, I don't know how to know whether what I'm buying at the LFS are really girls or boys. How do you tell the difference? Do the pet store people tell you the gender? Also, how many girls would be okay in a 10 or 12 gallon? I'm thinking 5 or 6, but I don't know if more than 6 would be fine in such a small tank. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[littletankbigworld]

I figured out how to sex bettas. From "Whenever you buy a female, look for the ovipositor. The small white dot on the belly that serves as the egg duct. Occasionally you will find a juvinile male with one, or a female that doesn't have an obvious one, but usually you can be fairly comfortbale that you have all females if you have an ovipositor on the belly."

Also, the forum I just read mentions adding Dwarf Frogs to a betta sorority tank. (I am aware of the difference between Dwarf Frogs and Clawed Frogs.) Is this recommended? What about other bottom dwellers, like small Corydoras?

 

[littletankbigworld]

I figured out how to sex bettas. From "Whenever you buy a female, look for the ovipositor. The small white dot on the belly that serves as the egg duct. Occasionally you will find a juvinile male with one, or a female that doesn't have an obvious one, but usually you can be fairly comfortbale that you have all females if you have an ovipositor on the belly."

Also, the forum I just read mentions adding Dwarf Frogs to a betta sorority tank. (I am aware of the difference between Dwarf Frogs and Clawed Frogs.) Is this recommended? What about other bottom dwellers, like small Corydoras?

 

[paperdog9]

Ah, I know you have read my thread (you posted there) so I would reccommened a school of harlequin rasboras or neon tetras. BUt if you went with the bettas, I think that would look really cool! I wouldn't do the tiger barbs only because they can be aggressive, even towards eachother. A don't know a lot about African dwarf frogs, but that would look cool!! If you when with the tetras, you could probable keep like 7 or 8 and for the rasboras, the same. If you do get the frog, I wouldn't put corys in with it, only because of space requirements. I think like 3 dwarf corys would look cool though (they don't get that big) Good luck??

 

[bassbonediva]

I'm the one who had the "betta sorority." Unfortunately, I lost all but two of my girls (one wasn't in the tank, thankfully) to an ick outbreak last week. However, it's REALLY easy to tell a male from a female. Nothing to do with egg spots (ovipositors) or anything like that. Simply put, females will only have fins that are at most 1/2" in length. Males grow to be 2"+ usually. Here's pics of my girls and boys, so you can tell the difference.

Females:

Males (the first one is a young veiltail, the second is an older crowntail):

Also, if you're going to do bettas, make sure you have a more shallow tank. I've learned the hard way that they don't do well in deeper tanks (my 46gal is 24" deep and it's just too deep for them). Optimal depth for bettas (male or female) is between 10"-15".

In regards to them being with ADFs, that's fine, but I would only recommend one ADF. You could do corys (would recommend dwarf cories, as you could get more)...or for really cute algae control, go with 3-5 otocinclus catfish.

 

[Doomhed]

yeah, and with bettas of any stripe, they really don't like cramped quarters, and 5-6 female bettas in a 10 gallon or 15 gallon is not enough territory for them to be happy. I would not put more than 3 female bettas in a 12 gallon, and even then it would be heavily planted.

 

[Newman]

but 3 bettas might be a problem as 2 would gang up on the third weaker one. i think 4 would be a better number to start with...

 

[bassbonediva]

Ooooh, not sure who I agree with between Newman and Doom on that one. I think it would depend on the personalities of the females. I would have trusted most of my females in the smaller groups, but there were a couple that weren't suited for the smaller groups.

 

[Newman]

yea it depends on the betta, but 4 is a good rule. 1 is cool, 2 will tear eachother to shreds, 3 and one of them will get beaten badly, 4 and they are going to be occupied by eachother well.

This is the safest way to go because when you start you dont know what kind of bettas youre buying...you could have bough the most peaceful females or you could have bough ones that cant stand each other.
personally i thought 2 female betta would do well in a 10 gal. i thought wrong when my plakat female demolished an LFS VT female.

 

[bassbonediva]

Yeah, you're right, Newman. I was thinking more after you know the personalities of the bettas. Oops!

 

[littletankbigworld]

Wow! I'm glad so many people responded to this thread! So, do you think 4 bettas and 2 cories or 3 otos or 1 dwarf frog would be okay in a 10 or 12 gallon? Or should I just have the 4 betta girlies?

Doomhed: Yes, It would be heavily planted.
bassbonediva: Thank you for the information about the fins. I love the pictures.
Newman: Thank you for the stocking suggestion.

Also, is it okay to wrap a sponge around my existing filter to make a sponge filter for the bettas? I'd wrap it around the part with the vertical holes.

 

[beckyd]

You are setting up the exact tank that I have! Until last week my 10g had a king betta, 1 ADF, and 3 cories- heavily planted. Well, those kings LOVE to jump. I had 2. One is in a completely covered tank and I hear him hitting the cover! The other tank is covered except where the cut-out is for the filter. Yep, he managed to jump out that 1" opening. Sheesh! Anyway, I converted it to a sorority. I pulled my little female from my 75g cuz she was eating all the fry she could catch. I have some lyretail sword fry coming soon that I would not appreciate being her lunch, so she's out. Yesterday, I added the only two females the LFS I went to had. As you have read, 3 is bad, so one more comes home from a different store today.

I kind of worried about the ADF with cories, but she seems happy. They give her enough space and she hangs on the plants and driftwood lots of the time. You have to be sure to feed them specifically though. Bettas are a nice combo for ADFs because they are gentle in their feeding habits, and prefer to eat from the top. Cories are busy, busy, busy though and if you just put food in the tank and expect them to find it, you'll end up with a starved frog. You need a set of long tongs for feeding reptiles. Wash your hands, because even with these you are going in. Thaw frozen bloodworms, shrimp, and whatever else your frog has decided to eat and put a scoop literally in its face. It will study it for a second and then launch at it. Its hilarious really. The frog will hit the tongs, so make sure the food is hanging all out where it can get it.

You will read that many put a little dish for their frogs to eat from. I tried this and she climbed over her food to follow the tongs. The food in the dish got ignored. Of course, in this tank the other fish would just swarm on it. I like feeding her anyway, its our special time

Bass I am so sad for you! You have lost many of your girls, just as I am trying to copy your sorority success

One other interesting note, don't disregard a betta in the store because of pale coloring. One of the girls I picked up yesterday, I thought was nearly white. I liked it. She was a soft silver color. Well, apparently when you feed her and put her in more than 6oz of clean water, she's blue. Really blue! And they are so tiny, betta pellets are too big for them to eat. Really, I wish there was something that could be done about the treatment of these fish by the stores.

Oh, and I don't think you need to worry about wrapping a sponge on your filter for females. They are plenty strong enough swimmers with their short tails to stay out of filter trouble. And if you put everything in your tank that I have, keep up with the water checks/changes because that number of occupants really maxes out the tank.

 

[littletankbigworld]

Okay. I worry about the filters though. One of my guppies was killed by our filter a while ago! I was reading this forum: Your basic sorority tank - UltimateBettas

It says 6-8 girls would be okay in a 10 gallon tank. I'm questioning this, since I'd like to keep 6 to keep the aggression down, but at the same time, would there be enough room for 6 individuals to have their own "personal space?"

Also, I have not kept bettas since I was a kid. Do they need special pellets? And are there special pellets for the ADF?

 

[littletankbigworld]

Oooh! Your blue betta sounds like a lovely girl. Thanks for the tip.

 

[bassbonediva]

I wouldn't put six in a 10gal. Even though they start out small (my two girls that are left are maybe 1" each), they get to be 2.5" or so. I expected my girls to stay small, but was immensly surprised when they got that big (and their looks changed quite a bit...you can see the differences in that first pic). So, I would NOT put 6 in a 10gal, that would be pushing it a bit much, and you wouldn't be able to put anything else in there, really. I had seven in my 18gal tall that I had before the 46gal and they seemed cramped in there. And as far as "special pellets" for the bettas...I usually feed either HBH color enhancing flakes or NutraFin betta flakes. I would go with one of the better brands, like HBH, NutraFin, or Hikari. And whether or not they'll eat pellets depends on your bettas. Mine will eat them only if they have to, they prefer flakes. Be sure to "treat" them once or twice a week with either frozen (thawed) brine shrimp or frozen (thawed) bloodworms. Again, which they will eat depends on your fish. Mine won't touch bloodworms, but they go absolutely nuts over brine shrimp.

Becky, yeah, it's sad about my girls. Was my fault for not quarantining the new fishes from Wal-Mart though (the upside down catfish). I'm pretty sure the ick hitch-hiked in on one of them. Oh, and you're definitely right about the females. My new CT female looks like she's really pale silver, but I'm more than sure she's a lighter blue with crimson fins. She's the perfect compliment to my CT male...and hopefully in a couple of weeks (after I get her conditioned well), we'll try some baby CT-making!

 

[littletankbigworld]

This is a quote from that website:
"Those of us who have kept female betta tanks for years know that slight overcrowding is best when it comes to female bettas to spread out the aggression. I've easily kept 12 females in a 20 gallon tank and would recommend NO LESS than 6-8 in a 10 gallon. Yes, you do have to watch your water parameters, but it is a minor inconvenience compared to the beauty of a successful sorority tank."

I'm just trying to get different opinions. And although 8 in a 10 gallon seems a bit much, this quote was from a betta forum with people who know a lot about betta care. I really care about my fish and try to get different opinions and determine which opinions are the best.

So...do you think 4 or 5 is the maximum number in a 10 or 12 gallon tank? I plan on buying lots of silk plants and rocky caves for the fellas.

 

[littletankbigworld]

And if I did put in 4 or 5, I probably wouldn't add any more fish, not even bottom dwellers.

 

[beckyd]

You can't go wrong by covering your filter opening. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. I cover my filter intake with a the netting from a regular fish net for fry. I like the green kind because the openings are big enough to allow filtration, but most fry and any healthy adult fish will be able to get off the suction.

I agree with bass on the betta count. If you crowd them, they are going to get bitchy- its called a sorority for a reason Better to use less bettas and put in some non-aggressive cories. They are just fun anyway.

Bass, are you going to do a thread on your breeding? Swipe that fancy D5000 and document your head off! PS, we just can't be told enough to quarantine can we? I have been good for awhile because of a similar situation-it was a stunning female guppy- but I've been lazy, lazy lately

 

[bassbonediva]

Yes, I still think that four females is your best option in a 10gal. As I said, if you put more in there, you wouldn't be able to really put anything else (except maybe a couple of otos since they don't take up much of your bioload).

Best thing I ever did was to get one of those boxes of rocks from Petco. I got mine on sale for like $3, but usually they're $20. I can rearrange it whenever I want and so the girls always have new hiding places. HOWEVER, my upside down catfish has decided to claim it as his territory and won't let anyone but the otos into the caves (and they can only go into certain parts, otherwise he chases them out). *sigh*

I will tell you this. I desperately miss my betta sorority. They were all so friendly and would come up to the front of the tank when I'd walk by. Jane (the little girl who's left in there) will come up to the front, but it's more of a "Save me from the insane platies!! PLEASE!!!" than "Hi! Whatcha doin'? Gonna feed us?" like it used to be. Jane tries to hang with the platies, but they basically just ignore her.

 

[littletankbigworld]

Thank you. So what number does everyone recommend? 4 or 5 bettas? And nothing else in the tank? Or cories?
Oooh, yes. I would love to see a breeding thread. They are always so interesting.