Persistent Ammonia!

[fredfishy]

Hi! So I have a five gallon tank with a filter, one live plant, a heater that maintains the tempt at 75 (I actually don't even have it plugged in right now, my dorm room is a sauna at my thermometer has been showing a consistent 82) and I also have two bubblers. I use Nutrafin Betta Plus water conditioner. I understand the process of the nitrogen cycle, so I don't need it explained to me.

The has been empty for about a month now, it was previously used to house a betta. For the first couple weeks it was empty, I was not testing the water because I was on Winter Break from school and did not plan on restocking until I moved the tank back to school. I did start testing the water about two weeks ago though (I use an API liquid test kit) and have had a daily ammonia reading of 5ppm. I know that the kit works because I tested bottled water and got a reading of 0ppm. I have also had readings of 0ppm for Nitrites every day, and readings of 5ppm for my Nitrates.

I did a 40% water change at the time I started testing the water (two weeks ago). I did not change the filter cartridge.
This past monday I added some API Stress Zyme+ to the tank hoping that it would knock out the last bit of ammonia.

My questions are: How do I have a steady ammonia level of .5ppm AND nitrate level of 5ppm, with no nitrites? And why won't the ammonia levels come down? My water is crystal clear and I can't think of any ammonia source that I have. I've been trying to be patient in waiting for it to drop on it's own, but I'm starting to wonder if there's something else I should do? It just seems like it shouldn't take two weeks for only .5ppm to come down.

 

[OrangeCones]

Does the tank have any fish in it?

Your tap water may contain chloramine and when the dechlorinator is use, it releases the ammonia.

 

[fredfishy]

Nope, no fish. The tank has been fishless for about a month.

If that's the case, what should I do? Should I try a different conditioner and do a water change?

 

[lauraf]

Use Prime as your water conditioner - it will bind chlorine and chloramine. OrangeCones also knows more about an ammonia alert disk you can use to trace any free ammonia that would be of concern in the future, as your liquid test will always show a reading for ammonia, even the bound ammonia that isn't harmful (the tests don't distinguish between free and bound ammonia) if your tap water does indeed contain chloramine.

 

[fredfishy]

Thank you so much! If I do a water change and use prime on the new water, do you think it'll be safe to add a betta? I'm so sick of looking at an empty tank!

 

[FlameTetra333]

Thank you so much! If I do a water change and use prime on the new water, do you think it'll be safe to add a betta? I'm so sick of looking at an empty tank!

Since you've been showing nitrates and no nitrites, if you get your ammonia down to 0 then you could try a Betta. Be sure to pick up pellets and frozen/freeze dried bloodworms. The bloodworms should be fed as a treat about 2 times a week to ensure the Betta has a rounded diet. Good luck!

 

[OrangeCones]

Without a source of constant ammonia being added, the tank no longer is cycled. You'd be doing a fish-in cycle if you added a fish now. It can be done safely as long as you keep up with water changes and I'd advise using a water conditioner that binds ammonia (check the label) such as Prime.

 

[fredfishy]

What about the ammonia alert disk that lauraf mentioned? I found it online and they're pretty cheap. Would you recommend that I get one? From what she said, it's sounding like a really smart idea.

 

[OrangeCones]

I've been using them for 2 yrs and think they are a wonderful tool. I've helped several teachers set up 'classroom aquariums' and having the Ammonia Alert Disks has helped keep the fish alive and healthy. Eager little fingers tend to overfeed the fish and since the disk only gives a color change in the presence of 'free ammonia' and ignores the bound ammonia, its a great way to know when to do a water change to prevent a dangerous ammonia spike.

 

[fredfishy]

Thank you so much for all the help! I ordered a disk also and I can't wait to finally get something in my tank! When the time comes, I'm thinking that I'll rescue a betta from walmart...they had some really sad looking ones the other day

 

[OrangeCones]

I'm thinking that I'll rescue a betta from walmart...they had some really sad looking ones the other day

To each his/her own, but I would not buy from a store that does treat their fish right. They will only use the money to bring more into their substandard care.

 

[KcMopar]

Sad looking could mean diseased and sick!!! You do want that in your tank.

 

[OrangeCones]

I think if more would buy from places that keep healthy fish, even if it may cost a bit more, those that don't practice good husbandry will change their ways. Plus, its not just the initial cost of the fish to account for. If you spend more today for a healthy fish, you may spend less in the end then buying a cheaper fish that you need to medicate and pamper to get to a healthy state.

 

[Thyra]

Although I agree with not buying from a store that doesn't take care of their fish, I have yet to find a store in my area that does not keep bettas in little cups. In fact Walmarts were in better shape than Petco - at least the cups were clean and I have not had any problem with the bettas at Walmart, but those are the only fish I ever bought there. One other thing I noticed is the closest Petsmart puts something in the betta cups to make the water blue. Then when you can't really see the details of the fish, they offer to dump the water and put clear water in. This practice really bothers me and I haven't gotten involved in it. I would think that would add to the stress.

 

[OrangeCones]

One other thing I noticed is the closest Petsmart puts something in the betta cups to make the water blue.

It may the same thing as Jungle's Bag Buddies, often used in shipping fish. It supposedly helps add oxygen to the water, acts as a tranqulizer, and helps combat ammonia (perhaps it binds - binding only lasts a few days and the stores' SOP are to change 100% of the cups' water 3x a day). The blue color in Bag Buddies is from Methylene Blue and meth blue is an anti-fungal medication also.

I've used them in shipping fish out for years, and every fish I've imported directly from overseas has been shipped in the same 'blue' water you see in betta cups.

 

[djm761]

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramines minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume. Prime will not halt your cycling process.

If you are using a liquid based reagent test kit for example the API master kit. Any type of reducing agent or ammonia binder (dechlorinators, etc) will give you a false positive. or you can wait to test, Prime dissipates from your system within 24 hours

This could explain why sometimes we get ammonia readings with 0 nitrite but 10 - 20 nitrates, or permanent ammonia reading. Any dechlorinators will give you the same false readings as they will bind any chlorine present with ammonia.

Prime also converts ammonia into ammonium.
Ammonium is also a toxin, but is quite safe at the low levels found in aquariums.
Because ammonium is essentially ammonia with the Hydrogen atom removed, an ammonia reading will still be present when using test kits.
1 month ago Report Abuse Asker's Rating: Asker's Comment:

http://nz.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111212081549AAMQdL1

 

[OrangeCones]

Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramines minus chlorine = ammonia).

Yes and no.

Prime removes chlorine and breaks the bind between chlorine and ammonia (the components of chloramine). Once the chlroine is removed from chloramine, Prime binds with the ammonia, converting it to ammonium.

The bond is not reversible

This is incorrect. The binding that happens with Prime and the ammonia (making ammonium) IS reversible. The ammonia is converted to ammonium and after 3 or 4 days, the free (toxic) ammonia will return, unless it was consumed by your biofilter. The beneficial bacteria can consume either ammonia or ammonium.

or you can wait to test, Prime dissipates from your system within 24 hours

This is incorrect. The binding Prime does does not dissipate that quickly. Same as above, the binding will break and the free (toxic) ammonia will return unless your biofilter has consumed it after 3 or 4 days.

No matter if its free ammonia or bound ammonia (ammonium), the liquid or dip-strip tests will read the ammonia. It is still in the aquarium, just may be in a not-so-toxic form.

You can take your pH reading, ammonia reading, and temperature and calculate how much of the ammonia reading is in the form of free ammonia and how much is in ammonium.

http://www.petgoldfish.net/ammonia-calculator.html

The higher the pH, the more of your ammonia reading is the toxic form. The lower the pH, the more of your ammonia reading is in the non-toxic form. One of the reasons the pH up and down products cause such problems for some is that when the effects wear off and the pH bounces back up due to the water's normal buffering ability, the formally non-toxic ammonium is suddenly present in toxic ammonia form, poisoning the fish quickly.

The manufacturer of Prime, Seachem Labs makes an Ammonia Alert Disk. It will only alert if you have free ammonia and ignores the bound ammonia. They claim to last a year, but I have one that was used starting in Feb 2010 and is still working correctly. I wish they'd come up with one that works as well with nitrite.

Because ammonium is essentially ammonia with the Hydrogen atom removed

Incorrect. Ammonium is NH4, ammonia is NH3. Ammonium is ammonia with a hydrogen atom added.