Well its not the diatoms per se that I'm worried about. Its what ever water parameter that is abnormal that has me concerned. I can safely say its not phos, ammonia or nitrates as they are all below testing detectability. I have no idea what my silica level is but that, I'm informed, seems to be the main driver of diatoms. I wonder what would cause a silica spike?
Fishdad's Reef Setup
- Thread starter FishDad
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I don't think it's the nitrates. I run biopellets that harbor huge colonies of anaerobic. They keep nitrates at virtually zero. It doesn't make sense to me that an undetectable change would allow for such a bloom. I don't they the diatoms could out compete the bio pellets unless nitrates rose considerably.
Also based on my research brown algae does not require nitrates or phosphates but silicates. Green algae doesn't even need nitrates but phosphates are the growth factor there. So I'm not really sure why silicates are suddenly present but I'm almost certain they are.
Also based on my research brown algae does not require nitrates or phosphates but silicates. Green algae doesn't even need nitrates but phosphates are the growth factor there. So I'm not really sure why silicates are suddenly present but I'm almost certain they are.
that brown growth you have on the sand and rocks used all the nitrates you had. that's why you cannot get a reading. and you never could because as soon as nitrate hit the water they used it. i hope you get what i am trying to say. they are there because your tank is cycling. every cycling tank usually gets them .i know mine did.
idk if diatoms are the same as brown algae or algae at all but even if they are, they need nitrogen just like all other animals/plants. just like plant they can prob get it from ammonia, nitrite or nitrates. silicates help their growth too but no matter how much silica you throw into your water they will only grow until they run out of nitrogen sources. it is a limiting nutrient factor effect (or w/e it's called).
your salt has silicates, maybe sand gives them too as well as rock.
Those things are there because they have chemicals to feed on. it is normal. not a sign that you're doing something wrong, but you may have jumped the gun on stocking. that's all i am saying.
you can easily wait them out.
idk if diatoms are the same as brown algae or algae at all but even if they are, they need nitrogen just like all other animals/plants. just like plant they can prob get it from ammonia, nitrite or nitrates. silicates help their growth too but no matter how much silica you throw into your water they will only grow until they run out of nitrogen sources. it is a limiting nutrient factor effect (or w/e it's called).
your salt has silicates, maybe sand gives them too as well as rock.
Those things are there because they have chemicals to feed on. it is normal. not a sign that you're doing something wrong, but you may have jumped the gun on stocking. that's all i am saying.
you can easily wait them out.
I hear you but it doesn't add up. My stock is completely depleted due to the ich and mantis shrimp situation. I currently have two clowns, a cardinal and a blue damsel in 125 gallons. So stock went down not up. But the brown algae/diatoms did not coincide with those events anyway. Coral stock has also gone down... my elegance perished. So their wouldn't have been anything to trigger a cycle. Also those bio pellets I believe would have consumed any nitrates before a bacteria could. They are in a tumbler, thus super efficient. My nitrates haven't been detectable since a week after I started that. The sea chem card can detect ammonia at .05, that's not very much and I would have noticed if that occurred.
I'm not saying a cycle small enough to go undetectable by test kits and alert cards can't happen. I just don't think a cycle of such incredible minuteness would trigger and brown algae/diatom bloom of this size and continue to outcompete my anaerobic living on the bio pellets - it defeats the purpose of running them.
One more thing... A quick google search on various forums and articles regarding brown algae are unanimous in silica being the source of brown algae. If silica goes then brown algae goes. I just can't seem to find reasons for silica increases, but there must be some. Sand, rock and even glass can release silicates but the question is what pulls them out?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't think the situation adds up to nitrates.
I'm not saying a cycle small enough to go undetectable by test kits and alert cards can't happen. I just don't think a cycle of such incredible minuteness would trigger and brown algae/diatom bloom of this size and continue to outcompete my anaerobic living on the bio pellets - it defeats the purpose of running them.
One more thing... A quick google search on various forums and articles regarding brown algae are unanimous in silica being the source of brown algae. If silica goes then brown algae goes. I just can't seem to find reasons for silica increases, but there must be some. Sand, rock and even glass can release silicates but the question is what pulls them out?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't think the situation adds up to nitrates.
they're in there, waiting for the perfect time 
or if not in there yet then you will get them on a frag of coral. their spores are everywhere these days.
just don't get upset if you do get another type of algae. that's why people run CUCs. eventually your reef will reach a point when undesirable algae growth will be kept to a minimum. but it just takes a long time to get to that balance. i feel like i typed that before..
or if not in there yet then you will get them on a frag of coral. their spores are everywhere these days.
just don't get upset if you do get another type of algae. that's why people run CUCs. eventually your reef will reach a point when undesirable algae growth will be kept to a minimum. but it just takes a long time to get to that balance. i feel like i typed that before..
I know. I get that immature tanks are prone to swings and blooms. Believe me I get that. But I also want to understand why those things happen. That (to me) is the fun part of the hobby. And if you can understand something, you can control it. Its like the parasite ich. Most here know that the key to preventing ich is understanding the nature of the parasite. And with my current circumstance with brown algae, I have come across many anecdotal forum posts where tanks that are 5 years or older suddenly get a bloom. And it seems the key to preventing that is controlling silicates.
Here is an article I found helpful regarding the relationship between silica and algae
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0297/0297_3.html
Here is an article I found helpful regarding the relationship between silica and algae
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0297/0297_3.html
controlling silicate is a good idea. but eliminating it to eliminate algae may not have the desired effect. i bet corals need some silicate for normal growth and skeleton production. you take out too much silicate you harm the corals.
the tough thing to understand i guess is that there are levels of chemicals in your tank that you will not be able to see. but the organisms in your tank can still use those chemicals - it doesn't mean the chemical or molecule is no longer in your tank.
overall, controlling any chemical will take extra money. for some people this is not an issue, but why waste all that money trying to get lab-grade reef water when you can save it for great livestock down the road.
you want to know why algae grows? ID the algae, bacteria, or protist and see what online sources say. they will usually say specifically that phosphates, or nitrates, or silicates or something else is being used. in reality everything is being used because these are living cells. but what differentiates them in your contexts is what they mostly like to use. like your diatoms - they like silicate apparently.
controlling ich and controlling some nasty algae are a whole different ball game. diatoms are nothing compared to bryopsis. i've had both. don't forget about the lovely cyano. i had that too. Everything can be treated and waited out. ich is easily preventable by quarantine. algae is not. you will get algae no matter how much you pick at your frags. it will regrow. and then you'll have an epic battle on your hands like i did with bryopsis many years ago
your diatoms are very nice food for most CUC animals. if you got snails and hermits in there they should be helping. emerald crabs can be useful in eating bubble algae and hair algaes (when hair algae is killed by peroxide). so having a good CUC is very important for a reef tank.
the tough thing to understand i guess is that there are levels of chemicals in your tank that you will not be able to see. but the organisms in your tank can still use those chemicals - it doesn't mean the chemical or molecule is no longer in your tank.
overall, controlling any chemical will take extra money. for some people this is not an issue, but why waste all that money trying to get lab-grade reef water when you can save it for great livestock down the road.
you want to know why algae grows? ID the algae, bacteria, or protist and see what online sources say. they will usually say specifically that phosphates, or nitrates, or silicates or something else is being used. in reality everything is being used because these are living cells. but what differentiates them in your contexts is what they mostly like to use. like your diatoms - they like silicate apparently.
controlling ich and controlling some nasty algae are a whole different ball game. diatoms are nothing compared to bryopsis. i've had both. don't forget about the lovely cyano. i had that too. Everything can be treated and waited out. ich is easily preventable by quarantine. algae is not. you will get algae no matter how much you pick at your frags. it will regrow. and then you'll have an epic battle on your hands like i did with bryopsis many years ago
your diatoms are very nice food for most CUC animals. if you got snails and hermits in there they should be helping. emerald crabs can be useful in eating bubble algae and hair algaes (when hair algae is killed by peroxide). so having a good CUC is very important for a reef tank.
Cyano sounds awful. That's the one I would like to prevent the most. It seems to be the hardest to control or eliminate. I think I am seeing the first signs of hair algae. Its growing on my sun coral which is not doing very well. I've tried feeding it and moving it but can't seem to rescue it so I might just remove it and simultaneously remove the hair algae.
once hair algae is in the tank, it can make spores to spread everywhere. so it is likely that it already has. it can also grow from tiny fragments of cells.
cyano is no big deal compared to bryopsis. cyano can be siphoned out and it just goes away after a few months on its own.
sun corals dont care for light. they aren't beginner coral anyway.
I'm just trying to pass along any info i learned from my reefs
cyano is no big deal compared to bryopsis. cyano can be siphoned out and it just goes away after a few months on its own.
sun corals dont care for light. they aren't beginner coral anyway.
I'm just trying to pass along any info i learned from my reefs
no that's not how you condition them to eat in day. you have to start at night. and basting them with a syringe when they aren't open and tentacles are not out is completely useless.
you have to wait until they open at night then give each polyp a mysis shrimp via forceps. you do that for a week to make sure they are eating and healthy then you start feeding earlier and earlier over the course of many months until they are finally opening on their own in the day time. it all depends on when they decide to open not when you spot feed them.
were they opening in the day time to begin with? and if not then how are you spot feeding if they aren't open?? $20 is a lot for a frag of any coral. how many heads was that frag?
and what made you think it was not very healthy at the start? if you saw tissue damage at the store or bleached color then you should have just passed on it *twirlysmi
you have to wait until they open at night then give each polyp a mysis shrimp via forceps. you do that for a week to make sure they are eating and healthy then you start feeding earlier and earlier over the course of many months until they are finally opening on their own in the day time. it all depends on when they decide to open not when you spot feed them.
were they opening in the day time to begin with? and if not then how are you spot feeding if they aren't open?? $20 is a lot for a frag of any coral. how many heads was that frag?
and what made you think it was not very healthy at the start? if you saw tissue damage at the store or bleached color then you should have just passed on it *twirlysmi
I used something similar to this method, but actually went LATER until they opened when I wanted them to. For me, I also adjusted the lighting, so that the lights eventually were on at what was really nighttime, and then off when it was daylight outside.
It did take months, but eventually every night-time feeding creature was feeding about 4pm (when I was getting home from work).
I had good strong moonlights on during the day, so I could see the fish fairly well in the day. The ambient room light didn't seem to affect them one way or the other.
It did take months, but eventually every night-time feeding creature was feeding about 4pm (when I was getting home from work).
I had good strong moonlights on during the day, so I could see the fish fairly well in the day. The ambient room light didn't seem to affect them one way or the other.