85 gallon sudden death

[comrade007]

i have an 85 gallon tall tank. i have had it about a month now. all was fine with initially loosing a fish here and there (mayb stres!!). but since the last last 3-4 days i have been loosing about 5-6 fishes daily including suckers!!!! when this started to happen i cleaned the tank and used tetra crystalwater treatment. i have an external filter and an internal one. i have a couple of plants and an artificial reef. i have a couple of suckers, molies, guppies, tiger barbs, green barbs, shark etc. i have no idea where i am goin wrong!!!!!!!!!!! at this rate i will have an empty tank by the end of tomorrow!!!!!!
please email me at comrade007@rediffmail.com

 

[Meman5150]

let me be the first to say you haven't given enough information. Is your tank cycled?

 

[comrade007]

i didnt know much about cycling so i didnt do it. i kinda ralized tht this could be a problem but after a month????? all was fine untill i cleaned the filter system about a week back. that is when all this started. do you think tht cud b the reason???? also what do i do from here??? yesterday i cleaned the tank by removing about 50% of the water and refilling it back and then used tetra crystalwater treatment for 6 hrs without turning on the filter system....

 

[Big Vine]

You need to go and familiarize yourself with the cycling process because your tank is cycling whether you intended for it to happen or not. It is normal.

Clearly you've been doing 'fish-in' cycling (i.e. as opposed to 'fishless' cycling), which is fine---it just takes some extra work to make sure your fish don't suffer more than they need to throughout the process.

Read up on both methods, because ultimately the overall concept is the same in each. These can be found in the 'sticky' threads posted at the top of the 'Beginner's' section of the forum.

Once you've read it, post back with a lot of specifics on your current setup---including types and numbers of fish, method of filtration, frequency and percentage of water-changes...and the list goes on, but those are the most important things for now.

Also...when doing water-changes, you don't need to unplug/disconnect the filter. Leave it running. Treat the tapwater (or whatever source you're using) with a conditioner that removes chlorine/chloramine, then add the water to the tank (try to get it close to your tank's temperature). You don't need to add anything else. You also do NOT need to clean filter media, and you certainly do NOT need to be swapping any of it out with new inserts/media. At most, all you need to be doing is removing the sponge insert and rinsing it in used tankwater (not tapwater) before putting it right back into the filter.

BV

 

[comrade007]

thanks big vine.....

just had a text frm my wife....2 more down the drain......
read both the topics on fish n fishless cycling.....didnt do ne of tht when i set it up.....just kept adding fishes and plants.......

now tht i have reached the bare minimum fishes ( only a coule of guppies, molies, suckers, 3 bala sharks and a few of tiger barbs left) what is the best way forward???

i have an external filter and a small internal filter.

i have a heater to the correct temperature (have a thermometer installed).

i had an artificial reef so that the fishes could hide n seek but took it out yesterday as i thought tht was cusing the problem.

1st change in water after 1 month and changed 50%.

 

[MrBungle]

even if the tank was cycled, 1 bala shark would be pushing it. Are you aware these fish grow to about 12" or more? Also, do you have a test kit?

 

[Orion]

Sounds like when you changed/cleaned your filter that you may have killed off lots of the bacteria that keeps the cycle going. If thats the case, then there isn't much you can do other than keep the ammonia and nitrIte down by doing water changes. Basicly the tank is going to have to cycle agian.

 

[IDunnoWhy]

1st change in water after 1 month and changed 50%.

So does this mean, the "newly established" tank went 1 month with no water changes?

If so, that is probably one of the reasons your having so many losses. Your fish could be suffering from Ammonia and/or NitrIte Poisoning.

 

[comrade007]

to answer mrbungle....nope never did know tht the bala cud reach upto 12 inches!!! but with a 50 inch wide and 30 inch tall tank u think this wud a problem??? nope didnt have a test kit....live in kuwait and most of the shops here do not stock them as this is not a very interesting hooby for people here.....they just buy these to amuse their kids and then when they die they just re-stock them....there are a few serious people out here but i cant find them......just got info that one of the shops stocks them....goin 2 get 1 today...n wht do u think bout havibn a uv filter attached???

orion....yes looks like i killed the gud stuff......looking back this seems to b the only possibility.......gonna start the cycling again....

idonnowhy.....yup went for 1 straight month without a water change.....

so guys now this is wht i wanna ask......now when i start of the cycling process again..
1. huv much water change should i do n huv frequent n huv long?
2. when i test the water for ammonia, nitrate & nitrite what readings should i get?
3. once the cycling is over can i add more fishes, plants, gravel etc???

 

[lauraj]

Ammonia should be 1 ppm max
Nitrites should be 1 ppm max
Nitrates should be 20 ppm max

The partial water changes at this point are to keep the above numbers in check, so the frequency and amount will depend on that.

The fish in cycle takes a while....believe me, I just recently did it and it took just about 6 weeks. During this time, gently vacuum the gravel with your water changes only if there's lots of chunk, but keeping the feedings light (once a day or every other day) to keep down the mess in the gravel, is better than vigorously vacuuming till cycle complete. Don't change the filter media.

Don't add anymore fish until you're cycled (ammonia 0, and nitrites 0). Then you'll need partial water changes with thorough gravel vacuuming about every 1-2 weeks depending on what your nitrates are.

When you are cycled, add fish a couple at a time. Adding too many at once will put your tank into a mini cycle and your ammonia and nitrites will be up again. If you add gradually, the beneficial bacteria will increase to handle the extra fish waste.


Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

[comrade007]

thanks guys.....

thanks a bunch 2 all who replied....my tank is doin much better today n i had only bout 3 deaths in the last week n half.......got the test kits n they r amazin......but now i have a small problem....the water is kinda cloudy....wht do i do 2 solve this???? huv come the stores have crystal clear water n i cant have the same at home??? is it because i have plants??? i will post a pic of my tank in a few days.....but please advice.....

also i was wondering whether i could introduce any shrimps into my tank ans what should i ask for casue remember i live in KUWAIT!!!!!

 

[f8fan]

Your tank is cloudy because the "good" bacteria is establishing and multiplying...this is GREAT! Don't worry it will go away eventually. You want this to be happening while you are cycling...it means it is indeed cycling. *thumbsups Keep doing partial water changes.

The fish tanks at the store are already cycled, that's why their water is "crystal clear" as opposed to yours. Don't worry, keep up the good work and soon yours will be clear, too.

 

[Big Vine]

Like f8fan said, it sounds like you're on the right track...good stuff!

BV

 

[MissFishy]

Looks like you are on the right track! Everytime you do a water change in the beginning, you will probably get some cloudiness in the water, but this is a good thing and will go away within a few days.

Since you didn't do water changes for the first month, you should make sure to do regular water changes every other day for awhile until your water parameters are down to normal. Yes, you will eventually be able to add some shrimp and other fish, but do NOT do so until your water parameters are perfect. And even then, only 1-2 fish at a time.

 

[s_anthony]

ooh tiger barbs AND guppies... better watch out for some tail nippin there.. tiger barbs are known for nipping on other fish tails...

 

[comrade007]

gettin back 2 normal but.....

hi all....my tank is gettin back to normal....the cycle is doin wonders to my tank but the nitrate levels are high so i used tetra nitrate minus to reduce this and this is kinda working but something strange happened.......i HAD a betta untill yesterday....my wife phoned me up n told me tht the betta's feathers were almost gone n it looks real bad....rushed back home n found tht it was really bad...near death.....i just stepped out of the house 2 go to the fish store to ask why this happened n returned back to find the betta totally missing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
even strange was tht the cat fish tht i have which was v v v v lively till bout 9 pm suddenly dropped dead!!!!!!!! do u think he ate my betta????

btw wht is the best way to clean gravel and reduce the nitrate levels???

 

[MissFishy]

Oh my. OK. You really need to get a siphon to clean the gravel and do your water changes. This can be purchased at any fish store. Visit my website (link in my profile) for instructions on how to use it. The only way to lower nitrate levels is by doing water changes. If the levels are high, that means you probably need to step up your changes. What are your ammonia and nitrite levels?

A betta was not a good idea for your tank. Tiger barbs and bettas do not mix, they were probably the ones that picked his fins apart. What kind of catfish was this? If your water parameters are not good, your fish will be stressed out and may be getting poisoned by the water.

 

[comrade007]

things are doin fine now.....i already had a gravel cleaner......stepped up the frquencies of the water change......no deaths since the past week n half....but my nitrate levels are v v v v high.....ammonia n nitrite levels are within norms....any further suggestions???

 

[Fuzz16]

how often are you feeding?
what fish do you currently have?

when you say the nitrate levels are high, what is the number?
what are the numbers for the ammonia and nitrites?

 

[Dan Steveo]

my advice is to not do water changes that are too big....... if your tanks ph settles to 7 and your water is at 9 then what will doing a 50% water change do? a dramatic change causing high stress and with high ammonia or nitrites this makes the situation a lot worse. always 25% even if its a 3 hour gap its better than an imediate change.

oh and imo i think that the shark that gets to 12'' will be fine. especially in a tank that size.

also to add on that. not to be nasty or offensive or anything like that.... miss fishy goes a bit too much by the book. always exact rules. by all means go by them for now but when your knowledge grows youll see how you can change them and how silly they look.

no offence to missfishy