A grumble about uninformed people

[Scrumpy]

I'm moaning again

I love these forums and have learnt, and am still learning a huge amount.
Throughout these forums are a lot of incredibly helpful, well informed experts giving out excellent advice who have helped me enormously.
There are also lots of knowledgeble amateurs sharing their experiences and trying to help where they have particular areas of expertise.
Then here are people who go to the trouble of looking up answers to questions in books, or elsewhere on the net and posting text and pictures to help you.
Finally there are also some utter prats giving out useless, wrong and sometimes dangerous advice on subjects they clearly know nothing about.
To the latter....why do you do it? Just be quiet. You're really getting on my nerves.
Stop sabotaging people new to fishkeeping with your crappy advice.
Grrrrrr

 

[Balance]

what really burns me is the ridiculously uninformed workers at many of the chain LFS (Petco, PetSmart).

I started correcting them in front of other customers just because I hate to see the little fishies suffer due to someone's ignorance.

just yesterday a worker at a LFS was happily selling a customer 4-5 goldfish that he was just going to "toss in a little bowl" (customer's EXACT words)

the customer obviously knew nothing about fish or the nitrogen cycle, but the worker was content to sell him cheap fish and lots of extras like food and conditioners and medications.....

sad really. I spoke to the customer for all of 2 minutes and he put back every item including the fish. they were for his kid (Finding Nemo strikes again) and when he realized that the fish would probably die without some actual care he didnt want them.

 

[Igor The Cat]

hey dont look at me
no really don't look at me
but that does su*k

 

[colesea]

Well, as having once been one of those "uninformed workers" at a pet supply chain, I do have to speak up in defense of the employee.

Have you ever worked in a customer service position? If you have, you would emphasize why so many of these people become disenfranchiesd and downright depressd because of attitudes of the general public.

When a customer decides to look down their nose and give me an argument, then the decision becomes: Give them a fish and get my paycheck, or dissatisfy the customer and bring down the wrath of management. Hell, people have to eat too you know, and as much as I value all life, I don't want to starve to death either.

Then again, many people on this forum have considered me an exception to the "uniformed worker" stigma. I learned the most about aquarium keeping and the hobby by working on the retail level, and I would not trade my experience for the world.

I also learned that the general public is generally under-educated, ignorant, fiancially underfunded, highly materialistic, and downright mean. If they want a fish, they want it =now=, they want =that= fish, and who am I to tell them different? The customer is always right.

There have been so many times that I simply "bagged the fish" just to get a hostile customer out of the store and off my back, knowing full well that customer was going to come back with the same fish, dead, and blame the death on me. There were plenty of times that against all my best advice, management would stab me in the back by exhanging/returning fish against "store policy".

Would I want to work in an LFS again? You bet! Nothing beats working with the set-ups these places have, tinkering with the toys, and ordering exotic species all on someone else's budget. Nothing really beats hob-nobbing with truely educated people and hobby enthuaist who will return again and again because they like the service and information you provide. Nothing beats the satisfaction of seeing someone go home happy, purchasing the best equipment and all the right materials because they were will and eager to learn a true love of fish.

So before you go spouting off about LFS workers, work in one yourself, sleeves rolled up, sweat drippy from humidity, and plagued by the incesent parents who want "Nemo" for their child but don't take too kindly at being told "go by the stuffed version."

~~Colesea

 

[Papillon]

well said! I know what you mean, but thank God I have been lucky and found some decent people in the lfs....

I do also agree with the first post, it's a double edged sword... I am keeping quiet and learning so much.. I have a thread " sick fish" and Iggy has been extremely helpful in helping me save my goldfish. I would be mostly lost without you guys who know your stuff.

Thanks a million.

Marie

 

[Balance]

actually colesea, every job I have ever had has been customer service of sort.

wether it was Sales, short order cook, lfs, retail, or for the last 10 year IT admin. my entire career has been all about Customer Service.

so I kow exactly what you mean when you mention just wanting to "bag the fish" so to speak! =P

I'm not speaking about dealing with hostile customers (i've my share of hostile Users!), but just total ignorance.

the scene I saw yesterday was a parent trying to get some simple goldfish for his child. he didnt know anything about aquariums and was trying to get some good advice from the LFS employee. the employee was playing the "I dont have time to actually speak to you" routine and just started handing all sorts of completely unnecesary items to the guy. but it never entered the employee's mind that this guy might need an actual tank.....

im not trying to bash LFS employees, im freinds with quite alot of very nice, very well informed employees...... but almost every store has 2-3 employees that know nothing about fish yet consider themselves experts. thats the guy that drives me up a wall.....

 

[Papillon]

What does it mean if my nitrates are at 0 is this good or bad?

Nitrites at 0.25 to 0.50
amonia at .5 to 1.0

I have one particularly sick fish in a separate tank and one on the mend with him....

 

[Balance]

it would seem that your tank is still cycling?

nitrates at 0 usually only occurs after a water change (if then) or before the tank is actually cycled.

nitrates only appear once the bacteria that convert nitrite start to form.

did you just start this tank or is it an established one?

 

[Sandie]

I think maybe strumpy is in need of a nap! j/k

 

[Sandie]

and Scrumpy needs one too!

 

[monkeyboy]

I also learned that the general public is generally under-educated, ignorant, fiancially underfunded, highly materialistic, and downright mean. If they want a fish, they want it =now=, they want =that= fish, and who am I to tell them different? The customer is always right.

Sad, but true... If working in a super market for 8 years teaches you something, its that 90% of the population are complete f*ckwits. I can't remember the last time a customer said "thank you" or "excuse me" to me or another employee (though they say it quite frequently to one another).

Though...In my situation, I'd have to say that most customers are fairly well educated and well established. I don't think those factors really contribute to f*ckwit-dom--I think its just a statistical fact that 90% of people are just born to be f*ckwits. Its like...a divine (or infernal) calling.

Back to the topic:

I am a newbie who knows little in the way of fish keeping. I also have a hazy memory. If I ever post to give advice, I usually attach a disclaimer that says "I'm a newbie--don't completely trust me", or something to that effect. If I have ever given any bad advice, I should hope that the experts will flog me (openly) for my fish keeping sins.

Cheers,

-mb

 

[AndyL]

Originally posted by Scrumpy
I'm moaning again

I love these forums and have learnt, and am still learning a huge amount.

So have I... But honestly, I think I've hit the breaking point...

I'm so sick of typing the same answer to the same questions over and over and over and over...

So I'm gonna start having some fun! I Hearby warn all newbies... use the search function or face my wrath

Andy

 

[Sandie]

I agree with that for sure.

There is almost everything you need to know here, if you just LOOK for it.

I am brand new to the forum, not to the hobby, but it's great here, I have picked up a few tips, and enjoyed reading the posts.

Great Job on the Website!!!

 

[catfishmike]

gee who would have thought that the general public is a bunch of dimwits?you can't blame employees of any place,regardless of what job they do.i have worked in a lfs and there is no way that you could ever help every customer or make sure that every person was going to put their fish in a good home.i was constantly trying to combat pleco myths and i got a lot of heat for that.why cause it sells fish thats why.if people knew how little algae plecos really ate do you think anyone would buy them?heck no!!!!this concept is a lot like going to the library and asking the librarian everything you wanted to know instead of looking it up youself.there is always going to be people who need the right anwsers and those who just need a anwser,quality of content being the last thing on their mind.

 

[Anike]

No one should feel obligated to answer questions they've seen and answered many times before. To the poster's question(s)though, I think that credit must be given to the fact that he/she wants to know something in regards to properly keeping fish. Imagine those who don't want that knowledge to the detriment of their fish and the further enjoyment of the hobby.

Perhaps some of you, more experienced and weary in the ways of bad advice and over-redundant questions can work together to compile a FAQ for those that are new. It would have to be quite extensive but would be helpful. I agree that anyone can learn much through their own research - but there will always be questions of a very basic nature asked on the forums from someone. It can't really be helped; call them dumb, but they need help and whether or not you decide to grace them with your advice is up to you. I'd much rather see a redundant question than notice a pattern of those that need help, but are too afraid to ask for fear of incurring the wrath of others. I'm new to fishkeeping, I've done my research, but sometimes, I need to know something, I realize I may sound like a retard, but damnit, I need to know! I know some questions are asked all the time, but please be kind - I think many people who start just have no clue and if they are willing enough to come here, we can help them with what they need to know. You could just move on to another thread that you deem is worth responding to as well. Consider making a nice big FAQ a reality and that way, one can quickly point to the FAQ to reference when a very popular question is asked.

This is not a personal attack to anyone. One should bear in mind that everyone is at varying stages of fishkeeping and it'd be a great asset to keep those that are experienced on board and also to not hinder those that are new to the hobby from getting the help they need. Thanks for reading.

 

[Papillon]

Unfortunately I read till I am blue in the face, and still have questions that haven't been answered.. I apologise if I am one of those who keeps asking the same questions over and over again, for you all to answer......

No I have only had my 38 gallon since last Wednesday.

M

 

[Gomer]

all I got to say is:

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

 

[Leopardess]

I agree with Anike. There is nothing saying that anyone is obliged to answer they feel are repetitive. Many newbies don't even realize that the search function exists. I know I didn't for a while.

And, some people enjoy helping out the newbies. Often, when someone learns a new fact, they like answering when questions come up about it.


I'd also rather see some repetitive, mundane, monotonous questions surface than make the newbies feel bad about their lack of knowledge...but thats just me.


Papillon, don't appologize. That is why the board is here

 

[valdok]

i think a lot of people try to give the correct advice, or think they know the right answer. whether they do or not, it's your place to judge. it doesn't really hurt to try to help someone, after all, it's their own fault if they try whatever the other person is recommending without investigating it further. This place isn’t the “end of the line” as far as fishkeeping knowledge goes—there are many books/online articles/misc. resources that should also be used in conjunction with this. it's naive to think that people are giving other people bad advice just to sabotage them, the majority of the people here love fish keeping, and share their experience with others thinking it will help. no one is twisting your arm and telling you to do what they say. stop being so bitter. the entire reason for this forum is to learn, and expand as a fish keeper, not to become bitter and fraught with disgust over its users.

 

[kimbo]

How much do chain petshop workers make?