A newb with a tank - watchout!

TAL · Sep 7, 2008

First off,

Love the site and the posters here. Great info.

So my wife got my kids a fish tank. Little 3 gallon unit with this bio wheel thingy and a filter.

She bought three little fish.

It was cool but those betta's looked cool so I got one. We named him Rana.

And we moved and one died (stress?) - it was a cool little 1.5 inch fish.

We replaced it with a rainbow shark. His name is George. He chased the gold tetra we had so much he died. Bummer.

Rana had enough and did the puffed up head thing and chased George all around until George's agresive ways stopped.

So now this tank that was for my kids has realy caught my attention and I add some more fish. here it where it is at:

5 gold tetras (I love the schooling they do)
1 Betta - great fish - keeps everyone in line
1 Rainbow shark (bought him a cave and he loves it in there)
1 pleco cat fish that sucks on the glass and everything else.
2 Peppered Corys (called John and ponch) they clean side by side
1 GloFish (the only one of the original three still alive - very active fish)
1 Orange and black fish - no idea what it is but it looks cool - poos are a mile long!

The only two fish we lost where from the original 3 and just after we moved.

We had a white haze develope once (algae bloom?)

I mix up the food a bit and have sinking stuff for the bottom feeders.

I have to replace the filter alot.

The other day I noticed some weird behavior. The corys started running to the top alot. Then almost all the fish were at the top. Then the water turned green and thick. I knew quick action was needed.

The fish were removed (those rainbow sharks can jump!). The tank, cave and other fake coral thing and the pebbles were all cleaned.

Put bottled water back (and some treated tap) in plus a bit of the old water. All is good now.

I have just read the newb section and now know I have done alot quite incorrectly but I have done pretty well too.

It seems my tank is over populated but it is a thriving and active community full of color and life.

But it seems that pleco is destined to be much larger. Heck, even George the shark withh be about 6 inches. The corys wil be about 3 inches a piece.

Looks like a i need a new tank. even beter though - I want a new tank.

Have had the tank for a couple of months now. Its been 5 weeks since I lost a fish and 3 days since the emergency intervention. ( i think the tank being be a window was partly to blame.)

Dogs and cats and all other animals move aside. FISH rock.

Any input you have on my fish keeping skills to date is appreciated (good or constructive)

FishGeek · Sep 7, 2008

Ok your tank is severely overstocked. You have the stock load for a fully stocked 30G tank! IMO this is the size that you need to get at minimum. I recommend reading through more of the posts on here, especially the stickies.

BTW

Kissyboots · Sep 7, 2008

Welcome to the site...but holy crap that tank is overstocked!!!

First you have to remove fish until you only have 3 inches of fish left. "1 inch of fish per gallon of water" is a good rule of thumb.

And they cories probably went to the top because there's no more oxygen in the water. A 25% water change weekly is recommended, and with a tank that small, I'd suggest more.

Yeah, you definitely need to get a bigger tank. I started with a 20g which was just right (I recently upgraded to a 55g though which is sweet!)

When you set up a fish tank, you have to cycle it first; get all the bacteria going.

Unfortunately my mom is yelling at me atm, so I can't write more. I suggest getting rid of as much fish as you can before they all die...

...hopefully someone else will have more time...

TAL · Sep 7, 2008

Fishgeek: yes the newb section and numerous links I come across have been great and I have learned alot tonight.

Kissy: I have started doing the water exchanges now aS PART OF THE MAINtenance (darn cap lock button - who put it so close to the a and keys)

apparently the corys will run to the top as part of normal behaviour(to a point) but when all the fish where doing it and breather heavy - well that wasn;t good...

My biggest problem is that the pump and filter are too smal for the load.

I am looking into some larger tanks now. One guy here lists 85 fish in a 210g tank. Reason I mention that is he is way over the 1 inch per gallon rule.

I find the one inch per gallon rule to be to restrictive. Now, at my current population density - I would haveover 200 fish in a 55g tank and I will admit that to be excessive but going down to 1 inch per gallon seems to make for a boring tank. Granted - I am new and still learning...

BTW - my wife has forbid me adding anymore fish to my current tank.

Kissyboots · Sep 7, 2008

Ok, so the first step to take to correct this overstocking problem (which if it isn't fixed could cause some really big problems really soon!) is to find out if your lfs (local fish store) or chain or whatever takes fish. My local Petco takes fish so people can "adopt" them.

Then if you want to continue fishkeeping, I would recommend getting a larger fish tank, 20-30 gallons if not more, if you'd like. Check Craig's list; they usually have some pretty good deals.

When you set up a new tank, you have to cycle it. I don't have the link on me right now, but both MissFishy and D3sc3n7 I believe have links in their signature and there should be one, if not several, threads on how to cycle a tank properly. It's either fishless, or with fish; fishless is recommended.

After your tank has cycled, you can start adding fish, SLOWLY! Not all at one time because that can stress the fish. I would start with some bottomfeeders. Add a couple fish every couple weeks or even once a month until you are to your preferred limit. I like the "one inch of fish per gallon of water" rule of thumb because it keeps me from overstocking. But you have to use the adult sizes of the fish to add them up, not the current sizes. If you use current sizes, you'll have too many fish and they won't grow properly.

Also, research before you buy any fish. Some fish can not live in the same tank with others. For instance, you should NEVER put two male bettas together. There's a profile section on this site (up top, left, next to forum) where you can look up the most common fish species.

Make sure you know what they eat too. I ended up feeding my first fish (a betta) flakes because I was unaware that they need betta bites. Luckily he survived my ignorance.

Make sure you do water changes frequently, the fish need oxygen (just like we do) and that's in the water. You might consider getting a siphon (or just a plastic tube) so you can clean the gravel or sand or whatever you have.

Also, you might want to get a testing kit. Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Supplies at AquariumGuys.com has the API Master Test Kit which I use. It's really helpful because it tests Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, pH, and High pH. Plus you get an 8% discount of their stuff because you are a member of MFT!

Anyway, I think that's it. Just trying to help you out. Good luck!

FishGeek · Sep 7, 2008

The one inch per gallon rule is more strict when it comes to smaller tanks. In larger tanks its a loose rule, if that makes sense. The more water volume that you have the more leeway you have. Also it depends on what kind of fish you decided to go with in a tank on how many you can put into a tank. There is more to stocking than just the amount of inches.

Kissyboots · Sep 7, 2008

TAL said:

Yeah, I feel that way too sometimes. I had a 5g tank and I couldn't do much with it...part of the reason why I just got a 55g. Plus, if you only care about what you see (as in a lot of fish) and not about the fish's health...then...why are you keeping them??

Anyway, the 1 inch rule is VERY useful especially for beginners because it means not so many water changes and less diseases. Once you get a feel for what your tank can handle, then you can start experimenting. But for now, STICK WITH IT! It solves most if not all of your problems.

Rayneuki · Sep 7, 2008

Personally, only the beta should be in the 3 gal. That's my opinion though. What she meant by suffocating is there was no oxygen or anything left in the water... It was all just poo and pee.

1 inch per gallon is sometimes not even the case! It's in place to help the bio-load and also to give territories to the fish. The reason you have aggression(or had) was because there isn't enough floor-space and hiding holes in a 3 gallon.

It's not to make the tank boring (by no means is a tank boring using the 1inch per gallon. All of my tanks are UNDERSTOCKED and they're great.)

85 fish in a 210? It ALL depends on what fish.

A 5 inch bn plec USUALLY requires at least a 30 gallon tank (not that only a BN plec can go in the tank.)

I keep loosing my train of thought but I hope you got my point?

TAL · Sep 7, 2008

Well... I have to find a spot in the house for a 50g tank. I have now read alot of threads on various fish topics and am very glad I came across this site.

I will now give myself kudos for keeping my little mexico city of fishtanks basically healthy (in as much as the only deaths I had came when there were far fewer fish).

Is it true that the pleco sucking on the glass will reach 11 inches???

Where was that info when I bought him!!!

MissFishy · Sep 7, 2008

I concur with most posters here, your major problem that needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY is overstocking. There is no way a tank that size can handle that bio load. I highly suggest you read through all the info on my website linked below in my signature. 1 inch of a fish per gallon is a great rule to follow. I know it sounds like too much room for them, but remember that in the wild they would have far more room than that to swim around. When you get to the larger sized tanks, this limit can be relaxed a little bit. Fish need room to swim and such to remain healthy. Good luck to you, but I suggest you get a larger tank and get to cycling it within the next day if you don't want to lose any fish.

Kissyboots · Sep 7, 2008

TAL said:

Yes, plecos can get up to 12 inches sometimes. And most people dont' know.
And that's exactly why one should research BEFORE buying anything. Plus most chain store employees don't have a clue about fish. Unless you know for a fact that they know something about what they are telling you, get a second opinion from somewhere else.

Edit: and there's the link in missfishy's sig

jediinthedark · Sep 7, 2008

The 1 inch per gallon rule is a guideline for people just starting out in the hobby. It helps people control their fish purchases and learn how to maintain a tank without going overboard on it.
Ultimately the rule has so many flaws and exceptions that it gets pretty useless pretty quickly.

Every tank is different. Some tanks between the type of equipment used, maturity of tank, type of fish, plants (if any) all effect how the environment of the tank will handle the fish.

Your problem with choosing a new tank is not the amount of fish you have. For the most part what you have would work in a 20 Gal. The problem is that you have a couple of fish that would need larger the 20. The Pleco - if it's a common - will need a bigger tank. That's where you need a 30 gal. It would be nice if you could figure out what the mystery fish is.

You have a certain level of confidence built up with this tank. Well done keeping your fish alive and happy.
You've demonstrated that you can keep a lot of fish in a tiny area. The practical problem with this is: what are you going to do if you wan to go on vacation? The fish density is too much to be left alone like that.

In my opinion I would leave your 3 gal alone since you like the fish that are in it, and you want to get a new tank anyway. Pick the size you want. Really think about it, where the tank will live, and how much you can spend. Also decide if the common pleco will remain, or if you are willing to return it and get a dwarf variety. The pleco is going to force you into 30 gal+ tank sizes.
Buy the new tank. Cycle the new tank, and then move everything but the betta into the new tank.
The betta can have it's own 3 gal condo.

Good luck, and welcome to the tank where some fish are big and some fish are little but everyone is wet.

Jonathan

Kissyboots · Sep 7, 2008

jediinthedark said:

Haha, that brightened my day.

I might have made the 1 inch rule sound...uh...necessary? But I would recommend you go with it until you get more experienced.

That's what I did.

brian1973 · Sep 7, 2008

Welcome to the tank..Kudos on keeping you 8000 fish happy in 3G..lol..seriously I could preach all day about hte 1in per gallon rule but thats been done already. I agree with Jedi on all accounts except if its a common pleco a 30G is still to small IMHO. I read yor first post 3 times after seeing your stocking, looking for where it said you had a bigger tank, i figure it must be like 6 people in a 5 person elevator there..lol

Welcome and enjoy the very addicting hobby of fish and good luck.

Oh common plecos can get well over 12inches

TAL · Sep 7, 2008

Im looking at about a 50g tank.

Should be fun picking out living spaces for the potential fish.

I'll have to keep the whole thing under a grand.

That pleco is a common. Nowhere on the store tag does it say it will grow to 11 inches.

Why does the poor beta have to live alone?

He does great with the other fish I have. I wouldnt want to live alone and I wouldnt want a fish that needs to live that way.

I think betas get a bad rap but I;ll start a beta thread for that rant...

emmanuelchavez · Sep 7, 2008

TAL said:

Lol, you just missed a great sale at PetCo (It ended last weekend). You could've gotten the 55 gallon tank (by itself, no light, stand, filter, or heater [if needed]) for $75.

brian1973 · Sep 7, 2008

TAL said:

Would you have bought it if they told you that..probably not

check out planetcatfish.com for more info on ur pleco.

AlyKat · Sep 7, 2008

emmanuelchavez said:

I got one of my 55's on Craigslist for $65 with light, hood, gravel, rocks and heater!! I've had it up and running for 3 years now and :::knock on wood::: all's been well! Definitely check Craigslist!!!

stevenc85 · Sep 8, 2008

Hmm... The 1 inch of fish per gallon of water rule is stupid. I can imagine this guy going out and buying a 4 inch oscar and putting it in a brand new 10 gallon tank. It honestly depends on the fish. 15 guppies could do ok in a 10 gallon tank.

Basically you do not want too much fish waste for your tank to be able to handle. So the bigger the fish the more waste they produce. And obviously the more fish you have the more waste they produce. Fish waste = Ammonia which is toxic to fish.

Fish waste turns to ammonia, which nitrites kill which nitrates kill which you keep under control with water changes.

Also oxygen, and surface area are important. If the fish are all chillin at the top of the tank (other than bettas who breathe air) then you probably do not have enough oxygen in the water. Oxygen gets in the water by gas exchanges at the surface of the water. So if you have a tall skinny tank, or a tank that is too small, you need to get an airstone or some kind of air pump to pump air into the tank. That will help with the Oxygen problem until you can get a bigger tank.

With your 3 gallon tank, it will be impossible to keep conditions stable. What you should do though is;
-very carefully add aquarium salt (yes FRESHwater tanks can use small amounts of salt)
-Get a thermometor and when you do water changes (which I honestly would do once every 2-3 days with this small of a tank and this many fish) Heat up the new water and wait for it to cool down to exactly where your aquarium water is. Then add the water, This will keep them from getting stressed from a sudden shock in water temperature change.
-Get testing kits and test the water every day.
-Feed small amounts of food multiple times a day. Very small amounts so none of it ends up wasted in the water. You want your fish to eat EVERY bite.
-Air pump for extra oxygen exchange.
-Plan on getting a larger tank for some of those fish, or getting rid of some. They wont fit in there forever.
-Live plants are nice and promote healthy gas exchange.
-Keep lights off as much as possible. Algae growth bloom could starve your fish of oxygen in the night.
-Keep this small of a tank where the temperature is stable all the time. Temperature changes can be fatal if they come on too fast or too much. ex. Keep away from windows.
-Clean your filter and media very often (which is kind of bad because you wont be able to build up good bacteria but with this many fish its needed)

Now that is a LOT of work to keep a decent tank. The size makes it sketchy. (Most will disagree with me, but i believe you can fit 2inch of fish per gallon if you do everything perfectly. However it is not healthy or good for your fish

Here is what you would need to do if you had a 30 gallon tank.
-After the cycle period of 3-5 weeks...
-Feed your fish once-twice a day.
-20% water change every week or 2
-clean filter and media once every few months.
-Check the water levels when you change the water.
-Enjoy your fish

TAL · Sep 8, 2008

I can see that this fish waste thing is a problem.

I guess what I need to do short term is soop up my filter on my 3 gal!

I need a filter capable of handling this waste.

I also need to get better with the water exchange. 3 of my fish were swimming at a 45 degree angle. This has never happened and the only thing diff is the water exchange I performed.

Learning alot. Wife thinks I am crazy. Kids love the fish. I'm never getting a dog. Fish rule.

I looked at a 55g tank. It wasn;t as big as I thought it would be...

A newb with a tank - watchout!

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