Adding sand layer to established tank.

[ryanoh]

So, I've had my tank going for about six months now. I'm VERY new to taking care of my own fish rather than watching someone else's tank, so I had some problems with nailing down the parameters and proper stocking a few weeks ago, and had some fish die. :/
I'm happy to say now, though, that after tons of reading and lots of buying things, I've got a good handle on how to properly take care of my tank, my water, and my fish.

But anyways, I'm considering adding sand to my tank on top of the gravel that's been in there since day one. I have about an inch of gravel, and I was hoping to add between 1 and 1 1/2 inches of sand because I've been looking into some fish breeds that I've read do well with sand.
I plan on going to Lowe's and just getting play sand and thoroughly rinsing it before adding it. Sadly, I don't have a different tank to put my fish in while adding the sand, and I know you're supposed to turn the filters off until the cloudiness goes away as to not get sand in your filter.

So, what do I do? I read on a forum somewhere that pouring the sand down a PVC pipe directly to the bottom will help reduce cloudiness, and just to do that slowly until you cover the entire bottom. Will this work?
Also, is there anything I can put over my filter in take to maybe just make sure nothing gets in there? A sponge in the tube? Cotton?

I haven't really been able to find a clear answer to this either, so I'll ask in this post. If I'm adding sand, do I need to remove my gravel, or is it acceptable to have one layer on top of the other?

Sorry this got so long, but thanks in advance to anyone who answers my questions.

 

[bassbonediva]

I wouldn't add sand on top of gravel. The sand will just seep through the gravel and it'll just end up mixing. If you're going to do cories or loaches or something like that that prefers a sand bed, I'd just pull up your gravel and replace it completely with sand. Usually if people layer sand and gravel, they put the sand on the bottom with the gravel on top.

I would turn off your filter and scoop your gravel out. After making sure that your sand is VERY clean (I use play sand and it takes FOREVER to clean...some people have very good luck with pool filter sand, but it's too expensive around where I live), I would use the CLEAN PVC pipe method you saw on whatever forum you were on. After everything has settled a bit, turn your filter back on and VIOLA!

 

[ryanoh]

You mentioned having trouble with them mixing together. Is this bad if they do?

The main reason is I'm cautious about taking things out of my tank and removing useful bacteria. I may add the sand to the gravel now, leave it for a while, then gradually sift out the gravel and leave only sand.
Am I being too cautious?

 

[bassbonediva]

The majority of your bacteria is on your filter media, not in the substrate, so taking out the gravel isn't going to make that big of a difference.

As for the sand and gravel mixing, it's not necessarily a *bad* thing, but it would kind of defeat the purpose of having a sand bed in the first place. Sand is good for cories and loaches because they'll burrow in it and it won't harm or wear down their barbles. Mixing it with gravel will make it coarser and it will still wear down their barbles.

 

[PlecoCollector]

From my experience, sand is a serious PAIN. It makes water changes very difficult (obviously syphons become near impossible to use) and needs special care. Pockets of toxic gases caused by the bacteria in the tank can get built up in sand unless you disturb the sand bed on a regular basis to ensure there are no pockets forming.

If you do decide to use it, I suggest getting a bucket and slowly rinsing the sand off. I filled a bucket half way with sand, then another 1/4 with water. I mixed the sand with my hands and poured out the water. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat until the water runs clear. The PVC pipe method sounds good for adding it. Mine settled almost instantly; I never experienced cloudy water.

Regardless, I eventually switched over to a fine gravel which is MUCH easier to deal with. Over two years and many water changes/tank moves later, there is still sand everywhere in that tank! D:

 

[bassbonediva]

Really? I haven't had ANY problems with my sand and I have it in four of my six tanks. It syphons easier than gravel because you don't have to push into it like you do gravel, all the poop and such sits on top. As for the gas pockets, as long as your sand bed is under 2" you shouldn't have too much trouble with gas pockets. I have MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) in the tanks with sand and they burrow in the sand, so they keep it stirred up.

 

[PlecoCollector]

Ah, I bet the snails help a lot!
I had used sand my Zebra Pleco tank and, because they didn't move around in it too much, it needed a lot of maintence. Besides the fact that I had to overfeed them to ensure they actually ate. They were so spoiled. I got sick of brown-coloured sand from the excess food and eventually switched them out to gravel. I recall trying to syphon just the top with no success... maybe it depends on the syphon size?

Still, it's nice to hear some different experiences with sand. I couldn't get rid of that stuff fast enough!

 

[ryanoh]

Sand sounds like it might be more problems than its worth, for now at least. I think I'm just tired of looking at the gravel I have now. It's too neutral. I'd like to get something either way lighter or way darker than what I have.

 

[lauraf]

Ryan, if the only reason you are thinking of switching to sand is because you don't like the colour of your gravel, then get a different coloured gravel!! Show us some pics of what you have, and maybe we can give you some suggestions. But remember, as much as this is an exercise in aethetics, your primary concern needs to be what will make you fishies do well.
For me, I don't tire of my natural fine-grained gravel as a background for stuff like plants and cool rocks or driftwood, and my fish are really happy with the substrate.

 

[OrangeCones]

While a lot of your beneficial bacteria does reside in your filter media, a good portion also is on any hard surfaces in your tank. If you do want to change it to sand and don't want to move your fish (or can't), I've used this method before with great success:

Get a sheet of plexiglass or two (very cheap at the hardware store) to make a temperary divider in your tank. I get pieces that are a little wider than my tank is from front to back, that way I can get a good tight fit when I make it a go a little diagnal.

Turn off the filter. Remove 2/3 of your water. Push the divider into the gravel to prevent fish from getting around it. I try to herd as many to the larger side of the tank and then net those that are on the 'wrong' side. Then I can scope out the old gravel and add my sand without worrying about the fish swimming in the cloudy mess it will make no matter how careful you do it. Once it settles down, remove the divider, add the water back (good time for a water change anyway) and turn the filter back on.

I've done the left 1/3, then the right 1/3, then the last time I use two dividers and do the center. I would wait a week or so between each 1/3.

If you do go with light colored sand, make sure you have darker colors in the tank too. Fish over just light sand and no places to hide don't feel secure. As long as you have driftwood, plants (fake or real), rocks, caves, etc., they feel more at home.

 

[ryanoh]

I also read somewhere that tetras prefer sandy substrate, which is one of the fish I plan on stocking in the next few months. Is this not true?

 

[lauraf]

Tetras? They hang out on the top of the water mostly, so I can't imagine why they would be particular about the substrate.

 

[ryanoh]

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just be changing my gravel a bit then.

 

[ryanoh]

I do have a question about gravel though.
If I get under my tank and look up at the gravel, there's a lot of brown "mud" down there. Is this normal? Is this good? I've been trying to vacuum it up while doing water changes, but it keeps coming back. Should I be concerned?

 

[littletankbigworld]

I've never ever had problems with sand either. Sand is fantastic. Just swish a siphon in circles to clean debris off the top. I use Mosser Lee Desert Sand (for terrariums.) I've been using it for a while with no issues. It is 6 bucks a bag at Lowes. The bags are on the small side but this sand is not hard to clean and within two hours, I had water with very minimal clouding. It is also more colorful than play sand. It has multicolored grains and little pieces of white, pink, and black rocks.

The mud is a collection of fish poop and whatnot. It's bad for your tank. I only have gravel in my smaller tank and I find this gunk collects easier in gravel.

 

[lauraf]

So is sand a better substrate for keeping that 'guck' from accumulating and possibly being detrimental to the tank?

 

[OrangeCones]

Every substrate has its + and - properties.

Sand doesn't let the debris (uneaten food and fish waste) get inbetween the particles like larger grains of gravel does. Basicly, it forces the fish keeper to do good maintainance or it 'shows' that they are not.

A good gravel vacuum on courser gravel works well too, if you are diligent about it.

If I kept cories, or some of the loaches (anything that likes to dig around or burrow), they'd have sand.

I use gravel in all my tanks since I don't have any sensitive bottom feeders and all are planted. Either sand or gravel works for plants, but the reason I use gravel instead of sand is that it allows the debris to settle between the grains and fertilzes the plants roots. Basically, I WANT to allow the debris to decay.

I still check my water parameters and if the test ever shows ANY ammonia, I gravel vacuum the tank well, fast the fish for 24 hours, vacuum again, then retest. Too much is just that...too much.

Some plant keepers use sand (nothing wrong with that). They just need to do a little more as far as fertilizers go to feed their plants.

 

[ryanoh]

So you're saying that decayed gunk at the bottom is good as for the plants as long as the ammonia and stuff doesn't build up. If this is true, does that mean plants don't do as good in sand?

 

[OrangeCones]

So you're saying that decayed gunk at the bottom is good as for the plants as long as the ammonia and stuff doesn't build up.

If you have fast growing plants that can use the waste before it pollutes the water, yes. You must test often to make sure things are healthy.

If this is true, does that mean plants don't do as good in sand?

Not at all. It depends on the plant. As long as their needs are met (with the 'gunk' or with other added fertizers), plants do well in either.

 

[lauraf]

Well, my fiish seem to be okay with the small-grained natural gravel that I have had since setup, including my cories and yoyo loaches that have been in for many months and seemingly thriving. If it ain't broke, at least for these fish, I'm assuming don't try to fix it???