ahhh!!! fish and fishless cycling!!!

[lostnconfused]

Ok, I'm one of those "run out and do it" kind of people, and I decided to go run out and buy a tank... one of those "tank in a box" kind... (lol) which came with the things i needed (hood, filter) and I waited the 24-48 hour period the pet store told me to wait, and got fish. Well,(in my 10 gal) my neon tetras died, my black skirt tetra died, my guppies are still alive, and I have another tank (30 gal) that I have a red tail shark and bala shark in that show no signs of sickness. What I want to know is, is there any way I can sort of do a "fishless" cycle with my 30 gallon tank. I mean, I want to keep them in there, but I can I monitor everything, and when the ammonia level gets two 0 in a 24 hr period (what it says in the stickies) can i start adding whatever fish I want to? I dont know. I DIDNT EVEN KNOW you had to test the water frequently. Ok, also, if you cant do a sort of "fishless" cycle with out adding anymore fish, how do i know the tank is ready for more fish? HELP

 

[FroggyFox]

Well no you can't do a fishless cycle with fish in the tank...but you CAN finish cycling the tank with fish in it. We usually call it a fish-in cycle.

Your tank will cycle whether you monitor the levels of ammonia and nitrite in your tank or not...if you add more fish that will add more ammonia to the tank so you need to not do that.

My suggestion for right now would be to have an ammonia test kit, a nitrite test kit and a nitrate test kit handy (the kind with droppers and test tubes, not strips that you dip in the water). Let us know what each of those levels is at. To keep your fish alive and let the cycle keep moving forward you do not need to add anything to the tank, no chemicals, no new fish. The only things you should add to your tank (tanks?) that is still cycling is dechlorinated water after a water change, and filter squeezings or something from an established tank to help the good bacteria in your tank multiply.

Do you have a siphon and a bucket, or a python and a sink to do water changes with? Your goal from now until the end of your cycle is to keep your ammonia and nitrite under about 2ppm...anything more than that is really bad for your fish and you'll probably have more casualties.

You'll know that the cycle is finished and your tank is safe to add more fish SLOWLY when your ammonia and nitrite are both at 0 and your nitrate is under 20ppm.

Welcome to mft

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Um, you can't really fishless cycle with fish, because the amount of ammonia you'd put in is not good for fish (that's why you do it without fish). If you can find it, you can add Biospira for an instant cycle, and then add all your fish immediately or stock slowly from there. If you don't add Biospira, just do frequent water changes, and once the ammonia and nitrite levels aren't rising, the tank should be cycled. You can speed this up by adding some gravel or some filter media from an established tank, which would have some bacteria on it to "jump start" the cycle. Then you'd add fish slowly from there. (You add fish slowly so that the bacteria from the cycle has time to grow to handle the increased bioload of the extra fish).

Edit: Yeah, what Froggy said.

 

[lostnconfused]

Ok, with my 30 gal tank, my nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia level was at 0. I dont understand why... shouldnt there be some kind of reading on the ammonia because its a week old tank. My 10 gal tank the ammonia level was at 2. I'm fixing to do a water change on it, but I was wondering if I should take my 5 guppies out of the 10 gal and put them in the 30 gallon to give the tank a little more ammonia? I dont want to kill my fish though. I dont know what to do...

 

[FroggyFox]

Not necessarily...depending on the stocking level it may take awhile for the ammonia to build up, a week isn't very long. Can you list for us the fish in each tank? I was a little unclear what fish were in which tank right now.

 

[lostnconfused]

yes in my 30 gal- 1 bala shark, 1 redtail shark. In my 10 gal- 5 guppies. the 10 gal started out with a betta and two neon tetras. the tetras didnt even make it through the night. Then I bought the guppies, and took the betta out and gave him a 1 gal tank. A few days ago, I bought 3 black skirt tetras and put in with the guppies. They made it for a day and a half, then died. Thats when I researched and learned about cycling and testing the water.

 

[Timbo]

If you leave your water standing for 24 hours (or so) in an empty tank . What you will get 24 hours (or so) later, is 24 hour (or so) old water...
You need to put something into the water which produces amonia, (A small fish, or even safer something organic which will decompose), this will attract "BUGS" which will turn it into Nitrite, and ultimately NitrAte which you then remove with water changes.
You can help speed this process up by emptying the contents of your other tanks filter / filter medium into the new tank (that is assuming that the other tank is fully cycled. If not, then it is one step at a time in both tanks together. But ONLY ONE step at a time), Just swill the foam in the new tanks water and the filter in the new tank will do the rest.
Test the water every day or two days and moniter the levels, They will peak and then drop to zero. It is this peak which damages and ultimately kills your fish (Sometimes it will kill them at the time and sometimes damages them so that thay die even months later). When you have zero amonia, zero nitrite, and assuming that the other conditions (Like pH etc) are favorable , then you can slowly add fish. Ideally ONE at a time. after a week when there are enough "Bugs" to handle the extra amonia, add another fish, give it a week for the "Bugs" to build up again then add another fish etc, etc,

Meantime test AT LEAST once a week, and do regular water changes. 20% twice a week is a good start. and more if the test comes out Dodgy.

yes, it's frustrating. Yes it takes time and you want to look at you fish. BUT it pays dividends.

 

[FroggyFox]

I'm going to close this thread...if you would like to reply please see this thread: http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34901 and reply there so that we can help this member out. Thanks!