angel questions!

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#1
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#1
hey guys, it's been a while ;)

my sad news first... bobo (my 10 in oscar) died last week. he had been battling HITH for a while, and i'd been doing water changes every other day... but then i had to fly up to NY for my grandfather's funeral. needless to say, no water changes were done while i was away, and the poor little guy just couldn't take it any more. RIP, little man!

sad news aside, i think we are planning on putting angelfish in the tank. i am thinking 4 angelfish, 4 rams (german blue rams or bolivian rams), a school of 8-10 tetra, probably some sort of small pleco, and our red tail shark, who survived bobo and is in the big tank by himself right now.

i got most of this plan from here (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php). i have my shark in place of the cories right now, because he is a bottom feeder so i think he can do their job, and a pleco in place of oto's, because a pleco will be less sensitive...

my main concern, of course, is that the shark will beat up on the angels, and everyone else.. what do you think my chances are of achieving a somewhat peaceful environment with this set up? what other suggestions do you have?

i'm supposed to be going to the lfs this afternoon, so any quick responses would be delightful. *twirlysmi
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#3
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#3
thanks BV, i appreciate that.

my story gets sadder... =(

i did a large water change this morning, a bit bigger than usual but other than that nothing out of the ordinary... and i just walked out to look at the tank, and shark bait was dead. :( i don't really know what happened... he was fat, but otherwise always seemed quite healthy. so needless to say, i'm not going to buy any fish today... i'm going to bring my water to the lfs and let them test it.

:(
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#4
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#4
this is my embarrassed face...

after shark bait the red tail shark died, i took some water to the lfs, figuring i'd let them test it for me: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. i'd already did a water change today, so although the shark had just died, i didn't expect much of anything..

i had 1 full ppm of ammonia in the tank! is it because of the shark's death? (i just tested it again, upon getting home several hours later, and there is still 1 ppm ammonia) or is it for some other reason? i feel like i missed something in the science lesson... i didn't think there were supposed to BE ammonia outbreaks in the well-established, cycled tank?

obviously, i don't have any fish in there, and i am going to monitor the levels closely until i get them back to 0. but what do you think the reason is for this ammonia spike?

(note: this was the first time i tested the ammonia level since i finished cycling the tank, because i didn't think i needed to... could i have had ammonia in the tank all along??)
 

Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#5
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
0
47
Florida
#5
Jessey,

Sorry to hear about all these problems.
This tank has been established for months, correct?

Could you please provide a complete rundown of the tank and its inhabitants:
-tank size?
-filtration?
-fish...what species? how many? what size?
(include the ones which recently died)

I have two theories for you, and both may be the culprit to some extent:
-your filtration was inadequate (not allowing for enough beneficial bacterial colonies to sufficiently deal with the waste...which shows up as ammonia and nitrite)
-your tapwater company is adding chloramine to the water
(I doubt it would cause a spike of 1.0 PPM ammonia, but I do know for a fact that the tapwater conditioner products cause the release of some ammonia into the water when they break down the chloramine; thus necessitating a conditioner product such as Seachem Prime which 'neutralizes' ammonia---turning it into less-harmful ammonium---for about a 24 hour period, which should give your filters enough time to eliminate it from the system)

Yikes...hope that all makes sense.
BV
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#6
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#6
thanks BV... yep, i followed all of it pretty well. ;)

the tank is 55 gallons.
i have 2 HOB filters on it, both rated for 30-60 gallon tanks.
now the tank has no inhabitants, but it DID have one 10-11" oscar and one 4-5" RTB shark.

the tank has been established for a year; during that time, it always had these 2 fish, and occasionally in the past i'd add a small school of fish for my oscar's snacking pleasure. ;)
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#8
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#8
well, in the past, i was pretty lax with water changes. (that was months ago)... that's why bobo got sick in the first place. when i realized he was sick, i got my act together, and at first i was doing 50% (or more) w/c's once a week, and then for the last two weeks or so, 50% (or more) approximately every other day.

like i said, because of my trip to NY, the tank did go about a week and a half with no water change.
 

Pure

Pure

Elite Fish
#9
Nov 1, 2005
3,216
7
0
Jacksonville, FL
#9
Doing all these waterchanges, were you vaccuming the gravel? If so over cleaning could also be the problem. This points back to BVs thoughts that you didn't have enough established bacteria.
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#10
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#10
that's a very interesting thought... yes, i had been vacuuming the gravel. i'd never really imagined that as being a problem... but it seems very possible.

so in essence, i possibly un-cycled my tank by doing too many water changes?
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#11
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#11
Pure said:
Doing all these waterchanges, were you vaccuming the gravel? If so over cleaning could also be the problem. This points back to BVs thoughts that you didn't have enough established bacteria.
Click to expand...
On that same note tap water commonly has chlorine which can kill beneficial bacteria as well. I know BV kinda touched on that. I may have missed it but have you tested the tap water for chlorine?
 

jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#12
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#12
i haven't tested the water for chlorine.. would it be worth me going out and purchasing a chlorine test? i do always use water conditioner/dechlorifier.

also, i haven't tested the ammonia level of the tap water, but i will. ;)
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#13
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#13
I would test the water for chlorine just so you know for sure. I personally dont use any dechlorinator in my tanks but I test me tap water fairly regularly for chlorine. Out of curiosity what is your current ammonia reading? It should be going down as the bacteria builds back up.
 

Last edited:
jessey

jessey

Large Fish
#14
Dec 25, 2006
548
0
0
37
Tampa, FL
#14
wow...

just tested my tank water... the ammonia readings are down:
ammonia - 0.25
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 10-20

but then i tested my tap water for ammonia... it read at LEAST 0.5, possibly closer to 1.0! gross!

there are no fish in my 55 gallon tank, and i'm moving in about 3 weeks (to palm harbor, about 20 miles away). should i add pure ammonia to the tank periodically over the next few weeks, to keep it cycled? (i'll be back with lots more questions during the move, i'm sure!)

also, i'm worried about my other fish now! i have 4 saulosi in my 29 gallon tank, a blue cray in my 3 gallon tank, and a male betta in a small, unfiltered bowl/tank. with so much ammonia in my water, i'm surprised i haven't had MORE deaths before this! what can i do for the next few weeks? and i'm hopeful that i won't have this problem in palm harbor... but if i do, what then?
 

silver dollars

silver dollars

Superstar Fish
#15
Jan 1, 2006
1,912
1
0
31
Salt Lake City, Utah
quantum-physics.webs.com
#15
I think you should empty out your 55gal and leave it empty until you are at your new home. Then cycle it again. As for the other fish, keep an eye on them until you are about to move, then i think you should fill some bags(the kind the fish come in at lfs) with water from the new house and put the fish in them.
If you are planning on getting angels, i think you should go with getting 2-4 small angels and let them grow up with each other. This way there won't be too much aggression between them until they start pairing off. What other fish were you wanting to keep with the angels?
 

F

FishGeek

Elite Fish
#18
May 13, 2005
4,294
5
0
38
South Carolina
#18
Id have to agree with Silver some on this. I would just go ahead and empty the tank and get it ready for the move. Trust me one less tank to deal with right away will be GREAT :p After you get the tank to the new house set it back up and recycle it. As far as the other fish I would just let them continue how they are. There is no point in changing things for them right before a move. It could be fatal. When you get them to the new place then slowly acclimate them into the new water. Be sure to not be too fast with it.

And lastly, your stock question :p I think that actually sounds like a very nice set up. I also agree to get some small angels to start with. They get along better in the begining. LOL. I think that any Ram would look nice in there with them. And for a Tetra why not Pristella Tetras?? I just got some recently for the first time and they are pretty neat little guys. And they are schooling just nicely for me :p Another of my opinions is to get Albino Cories. I find them to be the most active and really enjoy having them.

Good Luck! :D
 

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