angel trying to die....again

[dogdoc]

Some of you may have read part one of this dilemma, but it has an update today. I'll repeat some of the history just in case.

Alright, this is kinda weird. I bought 5 koi angels from a reputable breeder on Aquabid. They made the trip well and were placed in my 10g quarantine tank for two weeks. They all did well and were eating/acting normal sometimes a little shy, but otherwise ok.

So last week, they all made the trip downstairs to my 75g planted tank which is to be their permanent home. Two days later, as I was headed out in the early a.m. I noticed one of them stuck to the side of my Koralia and I thought, dang, I lost one. When I came back an hour later, I decided to fish out the "body". I unplugged the pump and the fish swam weakly away. I managed to net it and moved it back to the QT to await the inevitble. Well, a week passed, and the fish did well. Ate/behaved normally. So today at noon, after a big water change in the main tank, I moved it back. As I'm looking at the tank, I notice the same problem fish laying on its side on the substrate. Again, weak, but alive. Again I moved it back to qt.

So I'm confused. Why does this fish do alright in qt, but have near death experiences in the main tank. The only difference I can think of is the CO2 injection in the main tank. I thought maybe that was the culprit the first time, but today it happened mid-day with lights on and plants pearling. All the other fish seem fine, including the other four angels from the same shipment.

 

[brian1973]

Dogdoc I dont have a clue..that is just strange.. sorry I cant help. what were/are the water params after the water change? i ask because i recently lost a very active healthy fish within 8hrs of a large water change on sunday.

 

[dogdoc]

Honestly, I don't know the water params right after the big change. I quit testing a while back. This tank usually runs nitrate 10-15, Phos 2, kH 2, gH 3,pH 5.6 (with 30ppm CO2 addition), after dosing. And the big water change is not a new thing either. I do 60-65% weekly as I dose ferts for the plants using the EI method.

And the thing I find odd is that none of the other fish are showing me anything weird. I have a large school of Rummy Nose tetras that are showing great colors (which should fade if my water is off), and 4 SAEs who are reportedly very sensitive to lack of O2. I also have the other 4 angels in there from the same group who show no signs of stress at all

 

[brian1973]

Well the reason i ask if there is a large differnce between the qt and the other tank could it have put her into shock this time? It just seems weird only one fish is having a problem, could you be missing some sort of harassment towards her?

 

[dogdoc]

I don't know. It did fine in QT with all the others. In fact, seemed to be one of the more active and less shy fish.

I'm going to keep her in QT a while longer, but I really hate to. See, this is one of the best colored of the group, and I would really like it if he/she paired up with one of the others. I'm worried that the others will pair up while this one is in QT and I'll be out of luck. Not exactly sure when this occurs with angels, but I'm wondering if I don't already have one pair starting to form. Two of them seem to spend a lot of time together already. Wouldn't you know, they are the two with the least color.

 

[brian1973]

The only recommendation I might have is when you reintroduce her watch the tank for a while..maybe even set up a camera to watch it if you cant, other than something harassing her or the water params I really have no other ideas..hopefully someone else will come along with some other advice.

 

[dogdoc]

Well, I was home all afternoon. I didn't spend it all parked in front of the tank but I looked in often. I didn't see anyone picking on her/him.

 

[Orion]

The biggest culprit I can come up with off the top of my head would be stress caused by other fish. It might be the angels, or other tankmates from the 75. The mindset can change when the environment changes drastically, so the shy one in the QT tank might have become the dominate one in the 75 and vice versa.

Really other than something in the water, that's all I could think of that would logically cause such differences.

 

[dogdoc]

I think it has to be the CO2. I just tried moving 5 rummys out of the qt and into the main tank and ended up fishing all of them back out. They looked like they essentially "passed out" floating upside down or being blown around by the water movement. After a minute or two back in the qt, they all came around like nothing was ever wrong.

So this brings up another interesting theory. Fish must be able to build up a tolerance to CO2 in the water column. None of the rummys that are in the main tank, nor any of the other fish look stressed, but man did it do a number on the new guys. My drop checker is usually yellow, but since none of the fish seemed to mind, I haven't been worried about it. I'm going to back down on my CO2 and shoot for "green" for a while.

So the one angel that had issues must be somewhat more sensitive than the others.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Orion]

If it were me, I would lower the Co2 in the main tank, then drip acclimate the new fish into it. If they are having that much issues with it, I might drip them for at least an hour if not longer. Then make sure the Co2 doesn't rise back up quick once the fish are in there, let it get back to 'normal' levels over a period of days.

 

[dogdoc]

After my adventure yesterday. I lowered the CO2 overall. The other angels are coming out more and seeming more inquisitive too. I think I will try and shoot for a nice green color in the drop checker for a few days and see what goes on in the tank. It has been running a solid yellow with 4 dKH solution, but I was having trouble believing it because the fish weren't showing any issues. That is, until I tried to put new fish in.

So yeah, I've probably been overdosing on CO2. Live and learn.

 

[brian1973]

well atleast you figured it out before it cost you any fish.