Angelfish pairs question

Mar 9, 2003
34
0
0
Sunnyvale, CA
ruvideo.com
#1
I have 2 marble angels. They grew big enough to breed (as I think). They seem to clean some plants and rocks.

The problem is that I'm sure one is male. But I'm not sure about other one. It's forehead is not big as males has. So probably it's female.

So, the question is - if they are both males, will they clean plants like to breed? And will they clean plants if they are male and female but are not pair?

I have just 2 angels in my fishtank.

Thanx
 

AndyL

Large Fish
Oct 22, 2002
908
1
0
48
Calgary AB
#4
There's no real way to determine for sure whether a angelfish is male or female (tho many try). Only real way is to watch them spawning. It could be 2 females or a male and a female... (Doubtful to be 2 males; if they're cleaning spawning sites).

Andy
 

toodles

Large Fish
Jan 6, 2003
231
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0
USA
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#5
I agree with AndyL....there is no sure fire way to tell before they start breeding. Once they get ready to spawn, you can tell by the breeding tubes. The males will be longer and pointer and the females shorter and rounder. Or.... you can always watch them laying eggs and see who's doing what!!
If both your fish are cleaning the exact same leaf or rock together, then it's likely you have both male and female. While 2 males will not clean an area at all, a single female will, BUT, she will not allow another female near the intended area.
:D
 

#7
Over the years I have had several angel fish pairs. In every ocation I noticed that the pair never fight. Males tend to fight by biting each other on the mouth.

I think you just got incredibly lucky and got a female and a male.

Observation: I have notice that when I add a new angel fish in an aquarium containing several angel fish that they act a little bit like dogs. The established angel fish get excited and usually the established male (I know this because I found out who the male was later) gets closer to the new arrival and touches gently the new angel fish in the back half of the body near the middle. Like getting a taste of the skin of the new angel fish. Within seconds, the established male angel rejects or accepts the new arrival. In the cases where the male accepts the new arrival (meaning doesn't try to push it), I have gotten pairs!. I have done this approximately 10 times and the three times when the new fish is accepted, the two paired.

Isn't fish fun?
:D
 

AndyL

Large Fish
Oct 22, 2002
908
1
0
48
Calgary AB
#8
Just to complicate matters, 2 females will 'spawn' together in the absense of a male (obviously eggs don't get fertilized, but there will be eggs).

For all your angelfish needs, do a search for "The angelfish society" their message board can and will answer pretty much all...

Andy
 

#9
Well....
They are getting somewhere...

Blackfin is female I think - she cleans leaves.
And Whitefin is always around and touches leaves sometimes (like 10 times less than Blackfin).

And Blackfin touches whitefin like RC-Fish-Fan describes - like tatsting.

Whitefin does nothing in return.

And also Blackfin tries to go forward (when they are close to eachother) and like makes a cut-turn in front of Whitefin.


Help me ;-)
 

#10
Well, it looks like everything is going great!

Make sure to keep the water quality perfect. I got my angels to span by gently changing PH from 7 to 6.8 on a water change. I don't know if it was a coincidense or not but they seemed to like the 6.8 PH range and a day after the spawn.

The behavior of Blackfin and Whitefin coincides exactly with the three pairs I have had. So everything seems to be going alright.

*celebrate
 

#12
I didn't know that Angels do well on a 7.6 PH. If you decide to change the PH, do it slowly like a 0.2 every 48 hours. Take your time don't rush it. I use Seachem Acid buffer and Seachem Alkaline buffer (2 parts Alkaline to 1 part acid to reach PH = 7. The ratio depends on the water hardness. The harder the water, the more acid you need to lower PH. I soften my water using Tank soft to an in between soft and hard range). In your case, just add a little bit of acid buffer and check the PH after 15 minutes to get an idea of what is required to lower PH by 0.2. If you decide to soften your aquarium water, you can use Tank Soft just enough to lower a few degrees of total hardness without changing PH by more than 0.2 at a time. Avoid using Acid and Tank Soft simultaneously in the tank because the softer less acid is needed to lower PH and softning the water does lower PH too.

If the Dwarf Gourami is slow, maybe it is O.K. to leave it in the aquarium. Once the Angels decide to spawn, they will confine the other fish in the tank to a small section on the opposite side where they lay their eggs. (The best is to leave the parents alone with the eggs since the other fish will eventually eat the fry). I also understand that first time egg layer parents can eat the fry. Feed them lot's of fresh protein (frozen bacteria free brine shrimp and Krill).

If they lay eggs, have you decided what are you going to do? Transfer the eggs to a little egg hatcher tank or leave them in the aquarium with their parents?. (If you leave them with the parents, make sure the fry can't get sucked by the filter. Perhaps put a sponge on the In take tube of the filter to avoid lthe fry getting sucked and killed by the filter suction.

Good luck
*celebrate
 

Managuense

Superstar Fish
May 16, 2003
1,204
0
0
43
Springfield, MO
#13
i wouldnt mess with your ph. this subject is one of the most misunderstood ones you find on fish forums.

a ph of 7.8 is FINE for your angels--i bred them in 8.0. after years of captive breeding (and the fact that most cichlids are incredibly "plastic") there is no need to alter your ph, as all natural behaviors-including breeding- are easilly attained with higher/lower ph water.

furthermore, if your kh is fairly high, you will be in a constant battle with your buffered ph and end up spending your life's savings worth of chemicals, ro water, or whatever. this is also in addition to the fact that these fluctuations with time, water changes, etc. are likely more stressful to your fish than if you just left the ph alone to begin with.

stability is more important than "correctness" IMO/IME. just my 0.02$
M
 

#14
I agree with Managuense. PH is OK, since I had this angels since the beginning of my fishtank. The cicled it in fact. They are in perfect shape, full grown and bright ;-)

RC-Fish-Fan I plan to see aggs first and then plan what to do with fry ;-))))

I also plan to get rid of gourami, since now everything's changed - BlackFin is chasing him ;-)

I also plan to get pair of Rams. well maybe.
 

#15
I agree with Managuense. The subject of PH and how it affects the fish is really unclear.

I think that it is clear that PH sudden changes and or changes of more than 0.2 in a 24 hour period create stress for the fish.

The misunderstood part is that as long as the PH is constant, the fish really doesn't care if it is 7.6 or 6.7. All the fish books I read recommend a PH and hardness range for every type of fish. In addition, some fish require a PH change as a trigger for spawining etc.

I like the info that the fish can adapt to a wide PH range if it is stable. This resolves and simplifies the hobby.


:)