Angelfish Revisited. ?

Dec 14, 2010
32
0
0
Sunny California
#1
I have my current three angelfish in a 27g hex. For those who may have seen my other recent post, my pleco passed two weeks ago and both fish and tank are no longer sick. I wanted to add to my tank with either more angels or something else. How many angels could I comfortably hold in my tank? It is a hex so it is much taller than it is wide. Lots of live plants as well. Also, what fish realistically get along with angels? The three I have now pretty much leave each other be. Any suggestions? Thanks
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#2
Angels and plecos get along with angels...

27 gallon you could probably have 10 at a time.

Angels need the water pretty warm and are prone to fungus, they can also be snots so with increased fighting comes more fungal issues.

But yeah not a whole lot is compatible with them, they act like like malowi cichlids in that they are territorial and nippy, but they can't really hang with that crew because they just aren't tough enough.

I would get some plecos (NOT COMMON) and a variety of angels and call it a day.
 

bassbonediva

Superstar Fish
Oct 15, 2009
2,010
0
0
Northern Arizona
#4
Angels and plecos get along with angels...

27 gallon you could probably have 10 at a time.

Angels need the water pretty warm and are prone to fungus, they can also be snots so with increased fighting comes more fungal issues.

But yeah not a whole lot is compatible with them, they act like like malowi cichlids in that they are territorial and nippy, but they can't really hang with that crew because they just aren't tough enough.

I would get some plecos (NOT COMMON) and a variety of angels and call it a day.
Wow, really? You'd put TEN 6" fish in a 27gal hex?! Ummmmmm...how about not? Angels are big fish. They get to be 6" long and 10" from tip to tip on their fins.

Actually, quite a lot of fish are compatible with angels. I have my angel in with harlequin rasbora, black neon tetras, a male German blue ram, cories, a dwarf gourami, ghost shrimp, a featherfin catfish and a bristlenose pleco. Basically, as long as the other fish aren't super nippy and aren't small enough to fit in the angel's mouth, they'll be fine.

To be completely honest, I wouldn't even put one angel in a 27gal tank. IMHO and IME, they require a lot of swimming room and are cramped in smaller tanks. I generally don't recommend anything smaller than a 40gal tall tank for angels.
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#5
27 gallons

Well first and foremost 6" in diameter would make an angel the size of a salad plate.... 10" would make an angel the size of a dinner plate!!!! Seriously grab a small plate from your kitchen and a tape measure... I have seen breeders with 4-5" angels and veils but honestly most small time fish people are lucky to hit the 4" mark.

Second I doubt the OP is buying large angels (10-15ea+), and I would be surprised if they are larger then a quarter.

Angels are almost as finicky as discus as far as water and their being prone to disease. Same family etc etc. That being said I doubt op could get 10 angels to max size. If he had a total of 10 quarter sized angels I would say in a year he would be lucky to have 6 remaining. Unless he is a master fish keeper (if he was he would know what paired with angels)

It is frequently done but not advised to mix angels with anything, they are like discus in that they should be kept species specific.

I bread angels for years... I'm telling you that it can be done but is not advised to keep them with anything else. They are chichlids and thus do slightly better if they are heavily stocked, this reduces aggression or more or less spreads it out say you have 10 nips a week if the 10 nips happen to 10 fish everybody lives if the 10 nips happen to 2 fish everybody dies.... They should also be kept in a Harem type grouping with the females out numbering the males. They do pair but forced pairs don't often work.

Angels are actually ideal for hex tanks because unlike most other cichlids they swim the entire tank they actually NEED to be able to go up and down, they are one of the few fish that actually DO BETTER in a tall tank.

Personally I would plant the center of the tank with TALL plants that go all the way up and leave the parameter clear so that the fish can swim in circles. I would throw a couple fancy plecos and more angels in there and call it a day. The plants will help improve water quality particularly because the ratio of surface area to gallons of water is lower in a tall talk thus the tank needs extra O2. I would run my bubbler lines right down into the center of the tank where the plants are so you have a bubbling garden of sorts for the fish to swim around.

I would use only high quality food and change water a minimum of 1x a week. Never doing more then 25% change.

Sorry bassbonediva but after all of my years as a fish keeper I don't really see any new fish keeper keeping very many angels long term, they just aren't that hearty. some will go the distance but you will have so much time between now and then that there will be casualties along the way.

The Angel Fish
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#6
Not trying to jump anybody's stuff here.

But if you have an issue with planning for fish death or the impermanence of a tank situation etc, then why do you have a bala shark in a 37Gal??? It fits today but won't tomorrow. Ya know?

Bala Sharks shouldn't be kept in anything under 6' long, that being said you need 120g, and they are schooling fish so should be kept in groups...

Also if you had 10 angels and say 10 reached maturity there is actually an excellent market for full grown angle fish. A good sized angel fish is about the size of a man's palm...

Not so much for 16" bala sharks.... Full sized bala sharks are about tip of mans middle finger to elbow! Incidentally a 37g aquarium is 30 1/4 x 12 1/2 x 22 3/4, so a even a smaller sized balla won't be able to turn around when he maxes out.

I'm not picking on anyone just pointing out that in all reality if he/she has 10 angels in there today they A won't get to 10" and B honestly there won't be 10 left next winter.

In all reality the chances of that shark making it to max size are also unlikely which is why you chose to keep him in a smaller tank.
 

bassbonediva

Superstar Fish
Oct 15, 2009
2,010
0
0
Northern Arizona
#7
I've personally seen angelfish in home aquariums that are 6" from nose to tail and just about 10" from the top of their dorsal to the bottom of their caudal. *shrug* And yes, it was more than one, not just some fluke (my LFS had a breeding pair in a 10gal for a while that were that big...stupid of them, I know, but they aren't the best LFS to begin with).

Even if they only get to be 4", that's still ten 4" fish in a tank that really isn't very big. If you use the 1" per gallon "suggestion" (which is crap, I know, but I'm trying to illustrate a point), that'd be 40" worth of fish...almost DOUBLE the OP's tank size. And we all know that the 1" per gallon thing only applies to small, slim-bodied fish like neon tetras that have a relatively minimal bio-load, not angels which have a much higher bio-load.

I am just saying that I completely disagree with your urging the OP to overstock their tank just because the fish will start out small. That's a recipe for disaster that we all have seen happen on this forum and others.

(BTW-It's Dylandrewsdad that has the bala shark in the 37gal. I am rearranging some stock right now, so my sig doesn't reflect what's in my tanks. The only fish I have that isn't suited for the tank it's in is my dogface puffer, but she's going to the LFS tomorrow. The only reason I still have her is because the LFS wouldn't take her until she'd survived in my tank for at least 2 weeks. Even my male bettas get a minimum 5-10 gallons each.)
 

Dec 14, 2010
32
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0
Sunny California
#8
Thanks for all of your suggestions guys. Today I brought home two sterbai corys. I shall resist the urge to add angels. Though the ones i have now are maybe only quarter sized they have doubled in size in the month that I've had them They would probably be less aggressive in a bigger party but I'd rather not chance having too many huge fish.
I am already saving up for the bigger tank I will probably need for them sometime in the future.
As for the tank shape my angels love it, paired with the walls of plants on either side. I read they like tall tanks (discus too) that's how I decided on the hex.
 

Aug 13, 2010
870
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0
Sicklerville, NJ
#9
@Nanu-the reason the Bala is in that tank is because when I started keeping fish about 6 years ago and knew nothing, my 4 year old son liked it. It was in a 30 until about a year ago, now in the 37. As a matter of fact it is going to the LFS along with 12 inch Pleco in that tank this weekend. (The Pleco was rescued from a CL add for the 37 that the seller thought was a 10!

I disagree with the statement "Angels are almost as finicky as discus as far as water and their being prone to disease." I have kept Angels for 5 years with out any issues or special water. The store breed varieties I think are very hardy. Now if you are talking about wild caught, that is a different story and having never kept them, I really can not comment.

I have two angels that are about 5 inches at home right now, BTW.

I am just saying that I completely disagree with your urging the OP to overstock their tank just because the fish will start out small. That's a recipe for disaster that we all have seen happen on this forum and others.
Ditto! :)
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#10
Angelfish: Up to 6" long
Angelfish, Pterophyllum Scalare Profile with care, maintenance requirements and breeding information for your tropical fish
Angelfish


Compatibility with other fish
In pet stores the freshwater angelfish is typically placed in the semi-aggressive category, but that might prove false with some fish. For example, platies, tetras and plecos all are compatible with angelfish, although some tetras will usually nip at their long fins.
Pterophyllum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(According to wikipedia, one of the varieties can grow 15 inches tall in aquariums and taller in the wild, Pterophyllum altum)
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#11
UP To is the key part of that phrase

Yes, my angle tank (which incidentally is 180gallons) has 5-6" angels in and and a few that are larger then that.

Im not disagreeing with the fact that they max out at 6" (the size of a salad plate) Im pointing out how big that is.....

Ever heard the one about why women are such bad drivers? because they think (hand gesture of about 4") is 6"!

Seriously I talk to people all the time who have no idea what a 10" fish really looks like.

Angels are slim bodied btw. They are also closely related to discus.

The HEX is a GREAT idea for angels. If you really like angels and plan to continue down the angel path I would reccomend saving for a larger HEX not a long tank.

I personally don't have hexes because i have had issues with leaks and don't frequently buy new tanks (generally just hunt for deals on craigslist)

They are finikey, and trust me discus can live in regular water too, they just won't grow as they are supposed to. The crazy waterchanges etc for discus are to grow them out faster.

If you are saying you have seen angels the size of dinner plates well Id like photos of said fish, maybe hold a plate to the tank to see the fish in relation to the tank. Seriously I highly doubt it.

Your bala shark is fine (unless he is already huge), you just need a back up plan for a later date. that tank could support 10 angels for the better part of a year and I highly doubt that the OP really will have a 100% survival rate inside a year. The best fish keepers I know lose fish from time to time.
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#12
I have just moved my three angelfish to a brandnew 40g tank and i've been wanting a parrot for awhile. No one i talk to can seem to tell me much about them though. Mainly, will they get along with my angelfish? The parrot at my LFS is only slightly bigger than my angels. If anyone could help me with that that would be awesome! Thanks :)
oh and as a side note glad you didn't get a parrot. 37 hex is a bad choice for parrots.

oh and 10x 6" = 60" which is roughly 1/3 more then a 37 hex could take that assumes that yoru angels MAX out and all of them live. Neither of these are overly likely.
 

Dec 14, 2010
32
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0
Sunny California
#13
Yes, i hadnt fully researched how big they grow to when I posted that. I love the hex shape, and am saving up for a larger one in hopes my angels do get large! Maybe one day Ill have a large community tank for a parrot but for now Im pretty smitten with my angels :)
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#14
Parrots are cool but

they aren't comunity fish. They need to be with other parrots or other select south american/central american cichlids.

Some of them end up needing to be kept alone because they turn out nasty. :(

They are pretty cool fish but yeah you really need a 55 for 1 or 2 parrots and thats about all you get to put in there.

Other then maybe a pleco or 2

angels are awesome, I stand by my advice :)

Have a great day and best of luck