At my witts end with Cyano,

[OCCFan023]

Well I have been dealing with Cyano since I switched from My 16 gallon, to my 20l tank, and it has not resolved.

In my sand a small patch of cyano appears and then spreads over the week until I do my weekly water change and I stir the sand where it is, it dissapears, then shows back up the next day and spreads more. I have tried to scoop out large portions of the sand where the cyano was and just throw it out, and it still manages to come back. I cant afford to take any more sand out so I cant do that.

My params are as follows:

ammonia: 0ppm
nitrAte: between 0-2 ppm
nitrIte: 0ppm
pH: 8.3
salinity: 1.024-1.025, should I raise this? I read that cyano cant survive in higher slainity levels, should I bump this up to 1.026-1.027 to kill the cyano, then bring it back to a normal level or will this hurt my fish/inverts?


My clean up crew consists of 5-6astrea snails, 3 bumbleesnails, 4-5 reef hermits, 1 emarld crab (who enialated my green hair algae), and a turbo snail.


Nothing I do will get rid of this alage.... When I got home today and saw that iot had already grown back worse than yesterday I moved my powerheads around off of my rock and positioned one to flow right inoto the glass above the patch in the back and have it go down ontop of th einfected sand, i then positioned the other one across the leangth of the tank pointed towards the area giving extra water movement, and put my small powerhead position on my rock to create flow to my rocksn ow that my two big ones arent pointed at the tocks anymore.


I really dont know what to do to deal with this algea. Its on the bottom of the glass near the sand (I just noticed that, I didnt see that before).

Options:

1) Will a black out for a few days do anything to effect the cyano?

2) Will a HOB filter run with floss and carbon do anything to get ride of the cyano?

3) Are there any cleaners that eat cyano like my emerald ate the green hair?

4) If i scooped out the entirety of the sand with and scrubbed the glass of the cyano would this help it disapper, or will some float away and just still be in the tank? (to do this I will need to buy more live sand, so this woould be a last resort)

5) Can you recomend ANYTHING to help get rid of this cyano, as the title says Im going insane with this crap.


Im sorry to post this subject again (i did a search and found some results) but couldnt find a diffinetive asnwer, so I thought Id ask for my own situation

 

[KahluaZzZ]

Yes less light = less cyano. Less nutrient = less cyano. More current helps too. I had nasty probs with this red algae. I decided to feed every 2 days my fishies...it helped. The problems ended the day i've put the magic bio-marine poly-filter pad. In 2 days, no more. Since then, no cyano ever came back...and i don't always have a pad in my filter. I had a huge electric blue hermit that actually liked cyano and removed some good chunks.
Well avoid dead spots, and try the polyfilter if you're fed up. You'll smile.

 

[KahluaZzZ]

btw do not scrub cyano patches IN your tank...it's the greatest way to spread it...if you must do it, use a bucket, but i never had to do this...tnx again to my pal the polyfilter..they should pay me for those polyfilter ads ;-)

 

[OCCFan023]

.tnx again to my pal the polyfilter..they should pay me for those polyfilter ads ;-)

what are the polyfilter pad? Is it like a carbon bag or is it just floss?

 

[SALTY WATERS]

What about your phosphates levels?
How long are you running your lights?
How often are you doing water changes and what % of total tank water?
Are you running any filter media chemical/mechanical or biological?

 

[OCCFan023]

phosphate levels: Don thave a phosphate test kit


Running my lights: I had been running them for 11 hour days (8am-7pm) but cut it back today to 9 hours (10am-7pm). There on a timer so its constant. 11 hours is alot so the decrease should help, but starting tonight after 7 im going to try a black out and see if it helps. Any reccomendations on how long to do the black out?

Weekly water chnages or 4 gallons (the tanks a 20l) so a 20% weekly watere change.


No filter running, but plan on using the filter I got from Camaro that I will use on my hospitol tank and run it for added movement, and so I can put in some of kauhalas polypads (once I figure out what trhey are ahah)

 

[aresgod]

Increase water flow, cut down on photoperiod, decrease feedings, do some large water changes, run some phosban or equivalent. after you have dun all this and it starts to get better turn the lights off for 3 days and dont feed, when you turn the lights back on do a massive water change and you should be in the clear.

 

[SALTY WATERS]

Your probably dealing with a phosphate problem... your goal now is to improve your water quality as safely and quickly as possible. I would start by doing 2 x 50% water changes in the following manner:

1) 50% removal (syphoning as much Cyano as possible)
2) Top off with new water (Make sure temp, PH and salinity are dead on to your tank water...this is very important!)
3) Wait for a few hours and then perform a second 50% water change following step 1 & 2.

You have now taken out a total of 75% old water. 50% in the first change and another 25% in the second water change.

You are going to want to start doing 25-30% bi-weekly water changes; always syphoning as much cyano as possible and as KahluaZzZ said do not scub it in your tank as it will spread quickly!

I wouldn't bother doing a complete black-out (if you do I would only go about 2-3 days, but do not do this at the same time you do the water change to much shock on the system) just cut down the hours to about 7-8 per day until the problem starts to get under control, then you can start to slowly add the hours back on.

Do less feedings for a few weeks until you notice improvments (don't starve the tank though)

As aresgod mentioned as well increase water flow and eliminate dead spots

Keep the water quality to a tee and your problems will start to go away. It takes some time like everything in this hobby...so be patiante! It took me a few week to resolve my cyano problem I had last year but this workes

 

[KahluaZzZ]

About polyfilter, found that on wetwebmedia..written by Bob Fenner ( conscientious marine aquarist's writer and back belt reefer )

Other Chemical Filtrants:

At least one other chemical filtrant deserves mention and use; PolyBio Marine Inc.'s Polyfilter (tm) a specially treated pad incorporating exchange polymers for adsorbing polar organics and nitrogenous compounds. This hydrophilic polymeric material really works. I have used them personally and in business for removing medications, limiting algal growth by adsorbing phosphate, quarantine and hospital tanks...

Yeah 2 x50 % change would remove phos and nitrates...but i guess it's risky due to probable water param changes. Hard to do perfectly.

 

[lordroad]

OCC,

That sucks to hear you're still battling the red slime.

Here's what I did to cure my cyano outbreak, on the substrate level, anyway...

I added an aquaclear powerhead to the tank.

4 nassarius snails for sand movement.

2 red tipped hermit crabs.
(I bought these crabs cause they were the same price as the blue, but I later learned some people believe they will eat the cyano...warning, urban legend vicinity, warning)

In a week and a half all of my cyano, as well as nasty red hair algae which was like strands of human hair but slimy and covering everything, was gone.

I also only fed twice a week, offering frugal portions too. And I did a couple big water changes.

I hope you kick the cyano and keep us updated!

 

[SALTY WATERS]

Yeah 2 x50 % change would remove phos and nitrates...but i guess it's risky due to probable water param changes. Hard to do perfectly.[/QUOTE]


I have done big water changes like this a few times when I have become lazy with my cleaning or had disasters. I have never had any problems with this water change technique, but like I said you need to get the paramiters very close to that of the tank.

OCC:I guess the real question is WHAT is the cause of all this in the first place?

I can not remember what your tank set up is, I tryed to find it in the "what's in your tank" sticky but did not see. If you just recently changed over your tank from a 16gl to a hmmm...20L (typo?) do you mean 20G? then the newly set up tank may be why if you added everything to it at once. It would be unstable and unable to cope with the load...maybe, just a thought

 

[OCCFan023]

Kahlua: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_searchitem.asp
Is this the poly filter your refering to, the third one down (for 6.99$)

or are these what you are refering to, the product above is on this link too but along with other chemicals like the phosphate removers ares mentioned:http://www.marinedepot.com/md_searchitem.asp

As of right now I added on a extra small HOB filter for extra water movement, moved some powerheads around to create more flow to the spot, and cut back hours to 9 instead of 11 daily.

I will continure to feed daily, just less amounts.

I can make a order maybe soon, and pick up some stuff. Anything reccomended besided the polyfilter, do I need to get a phosphate remover aswell or does the polyfilter ability to remove ammonia be enough?

Lord- Unfortunetly my lfs is limited in what inverts they get, and donthave much of a snail or hermit collection, I dont even know if they have nassarius snails, but Ive never really looked, just have seen the astrea.


Salty- Tanks went from the 16g to a 20 gallon Long tank (20L) sorry for the confusion, I didnt mean liters.



Before I buy anything Ill just see what happens with the increasxed flow to the spot, and try the blackout for 3 days and then go from there with more discussion about some of these items. Thanks for all the help guys, soon this cyano will fall to the power of mft knowledge

 

[S.Reef]

Im not one to recommend chemical treatments, but Red Slime Remover by Ultra is awesome...and it works fine in reef tanks.

 

[KahluaZzZ]

mhh your links are just aiming the search page..
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/filtration/l/blprbiomarinpad.htm is a link with more info and http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/medicine.php?product_ID=md-bmpf

 

[KahluaZzZ]

they are cheap in the USA...here it's mostly 20 CDN $ for each.
They can be efficient for months, depending of your bioload. I wash the pad once a week. The beauty of the pad is that it tells ya what crap it absorbed..like going blue when you have copper in your water, green for ammonia etc..

 

[wayne]

Red slime remover will get rid of it, but once you've gotten rid of it expect a lot of hair algae growth - the nutrients have to go somewhere. In reply to your questions....
1. A blackout is a total waste of time and effort - cyano is more resilient than any of your other photosynthetic orgs. So if you have corals forget it.
2.No
3 No
4 That will do it, and we will get to this

Your salinity is high enough, your pH is high enough, in fact if you consistently have pH 8.3 and above I doubt phosphate is much of a problem as it will be bound to calcaerous material.

You have battled hair algae, and now you have cyano - you have a nutrient problem somewhere. Now it is interesting you are getting it on the substrate, is it on any rocks.
Question - how much sand do you have? How deep, what size grains (in mm). Do you ever hoover it. How often do you do this - does much come out?

I had cyano in my tank till I reduced the substrate thickness to very thin, and cleaned out all the gunk in it good and proper. If you have a messy substrate you can do a daily 100% water change and tht will not shift it as it is NOT picking up nutrients from the water.
So my advice would be move all the live rock to one side, and hoover half the substrate hard. A day or so late, do the other side. It's unfortunately quite disruptive. Also check out substrate - if it's more than a cm thick, but less than 7 or 8 cms you need to make it thick or thin. If it's not sugar fine that can be a problem due to crud between the grains.
Also make sure your flow pattern is good and strong, and make sure you don't have live rock covering so much of the floor space that there are a lot of gunk accumulating pockets.
Please give a substrate description, plus a photo. But you will need to resolve your nutrient problem, though my bet is it's accumulated crud in the substrate

 

[JustinP]

I absolutely agree with Wayne. I just won this battle a few months ago. Red cyano on substrate ONLY. No Phos, no nitrates in water and I eventually tracked the problem to my sand bed. I cut the height of the sand in half, now about a half inch and thoroughly hover siphon 1 half of the substrate during each water change now and the cyano vanished on its own. I believe the substrate to be the leading source of cyano problems more often than not and people don't realize.

 

[OCCFan023]

kahlua those are the filter pads I was trying to link to, so Ill check them out and see if i can get em.


Wayne:
Substrate description:

3cm deep, right in the middle and where I hsouldnt be apparently. On my next water change I could take a net and just scoop out the whole area of cyano and scrub the wall its on and then move the substarate form the other side to make the tank have a substrate of 1cm.

probably about 1-2mm grains

As for water changes I ussually just did the water column, havent hoovered like I should have been. When the cyano started getting bad I would actually syphon into the sand and take some sand out, but I never really hoovered ontop of the substrate (and have noticed debris starting to build up so thats a issue I will start dealing with)

I cant get any pictures of my tank (no digital camera) but heres a link to the sand: http://aquariumguys.com/aragalive.html


I think that if I order that polyfilter, and do as you suggest Wayne that it will take care of this garbage.


I took a look at the tank and some of the sand comes up above the black border so I can see into the substrate, and I can see gunk in between the sand, not even just by the cyano area but in other, so I think this deffinetly has a part in the problem.

 

[SALTY WATERS]

If you can get your hands on 1 or 2 Olive snails they do an exellent job of keeping your substrate turned, as 90% of the time they are moving around under it. You don't see them very often but they help! I have two in my 10gl.

 

[sparker]

I had the same problem, and the guy at the lfs suggested i treat with "maracyn". it says on the box its for freshwater and treats fin and tail rot, popeye and body fungus. but the active ingredient in it will "get the red out" Well i tried it out and it worked. no sideeffects as of yet. but the red is gone.