ATTENTION EXPERTS-Please help new fish

[ttatack]

Hello Fishtanknet. What a pickle I am in. More annoying questions from someone who did their research after the fish were added to the tank. I've had fish tanks all my life and never knew about the whole cycle process. Can anyone help save my fish? Here's the deal. I set up a 10 gallon freshwater aquarium and had it up and running for a couple months with no fish in it. Thought I was doing the right thing. It always worked in the past. I've had much larger tanks in the past but I wanted something small for my office.

Where to begin? I've read many of the beginner threads and still have a lot of questions. I live on an island thirty miles across the Atlantic ocean from the nearest fish store so returning the fish is not an option. I've posted signs around town hoping someone could "adopt" the fish before they perish in my deplorable water situation.

First off, I added way too many fish for a ten gallon aquarium. 4 black skirt tetra's, 6 baby cory's, a few neons and a baby pleco. Naturally the ammonia sky rocketed along with the nitrite and nitrates. The neons died within a couple days. Frantic I sent a water sample to the fishstore. The fishkeeper told me there was nothing I could do. All the fish were going to die. Anything I added or did to the water would only prolong their death. As a second opinion I called the Petsmart store who sent over this stuff called "Amquel+", removes nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia. After adding that to the tank, I thought all was well. Nitrite and nitrates were zero. Ammonia leveled off but the next couple days it went through the roof again. I've done 20% water changes and added "ammolock" which states that it detoxifies ammonia but does not remove it so it will still turn into nitrates. Also added " Proquatics bacteria starter".

So my question is ... is it hopeless? Am I prolonging their death like the guy said? I screwed up the cycle process and don't know what to do next. The ammonia keeps rising and I keep doing water changes but the nitrates remain at zero. Is this because I removed them with the Amquel+? It's been 12 days since I added the fish. Also, I have another ten gallon aquarium I could set up to remove some of the overcrowding but will the fish survive the stress of another new tank and the whole cycle process again?

Please help!!! I have gained a lot of insight from this site but I am really at a loss. My only other hope is that someone will call today wanting to adopt the fish which is really unlikely since being on an island with no fish store not too many people have their aquariums anymore. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I feel terrible about this whole thing.

 

[Orion]

Yes the amquel will slow down the cycle process. It changes the regular ammonia into a different type of ammonia that isn't AS harmfull to the fish, but the bacteria can't use it as well either.

Basicly the best thing for you to do is water changes. If you have another tank then yes, you can split the fish up. This will help keeping the ammonia from building up so quickly in a single tank. But you still need to do at least daily water changes from the sounds of it.

Most 'bacteria in a bottle' doesn't work. However there is one if you can find it that does according to many people on this site as well as others. It's called Bio-Spira. I've never used it, but apparently it does much of what it claims by allowing an almost instant cycle of a fish tank. It is pricey, but can be worth it.

It's just about never hopeless. Just don't give up too soon and good luck!

 

[ttatack]

Thanks for the reply. I'll set up the other tank today but doesn't it have to sit for a couple days to age the water? What is best for new water- "start right" or "stress coat" or both? Also, how should I split the fish up? The tetra's would be easier to net. Do you recommend leaving the six cory's together in the old tank and moving the four tetra's to the tank? The cory's are still quite small and very active. I think I'll leave the baby pleco. He seems content in his cave. Again thanks so much for your suggestions.

 

[Orion]

For new water all you really need to add is just the dechloranator to remove the chlorine. Stress coat does this I belive. I would leave the cories togeather as they do better in groups.

You don't have to use two tanks. Like I said, this will just help reduce the overall amount of ammonia in the single tank. Water changes are the only thing that's going to save your fish untill the tank is done cycleing.

 

[Pure]

Orion is correct, water changes is your only hope. Start Right is a darn good dechlorinatore. I personally love it, and I would stay away from using stress coat. It's organic based and in a non cycled tank it will only add to your growing ammonia problem.

If you choose to go with another tank to help reduce the load on the current system, just let the water sit over night before adding fish. When water comes out of your tap the PH is at a non natural level and will change as it out gasses. This is due to several reasons, but 24 hrs of sitting is plenty of time to allow gas exchange to happen and the PH to stabilize.

 

[kristar1982]

To cycle your other tank quicker, you should use water from the cycled tank and perhaps some floss, decorations and/or gravel. Don't add more than 2 to 3 fish at a time to your 10 gallon in order to avoid an ammonia spike.

Also, I wouldn't consider your fish "dead men walking" as they just might survive this ordeal.

 

[Big Vine]

Not a bad idea, but he doesn't even have his first tank cycled yet---that's the problem here.

ttatack,

I suggest setting up that other tank right away. Dechlorinate the water, and put the tetras in there as soon as it gets to about room temperature.

My thought is that you should also move the pleco in there as well, since you already have 6 other bottom-feeders (the cories) in your original tank.

Just don't even worry about cycling that other tank...you need to give the fish in your over-stocked tank some relief by moving some of them over to the new tank! Once you've done that, you can just do daily water changes (as suggested by others) until both tanks finish cycling.

Good luck.
Big Vine

 

[ttatack]

Thanks BIG VINE: New tank has been set up and the tetra's and pleco were safety moved. The temp's in both tanks are 78 degrees and the ph in both tanks is 7.0. By the way-"he" is a "she", Tanya's my name and I sure do appreciate all your comments and suggestions. You've given me more options and hope than the guy at the fish store. As far as the old tank is concerned I don't think it is cycled if the ammonia remains sky high. The nitraites and nitrates were also high but then I added the Amquel+ and they went down to 0-so does that mean that the cycle process has to start from the beginning again? When the ammonia goes down and the nitrates go up then I know the cycle is running it's course? When both are at 0 that means the tank is then cycled? Why didn't I know this before with all my other tanks? I just thought the first couple fish died from stress. It all makes sense now and I feel rotten for putting these fish through this. I know one thing and that is if they survive they will be the most spoiled, well kept fish around. I will continue with water changes and keep you updated on their condition. Can't thank you enough. So glad I found this site.

 

[Big Vine]

Hey Tanya,

You're very welcome!
Glad to hear you got those fish moved over to the new tank.

As far as the old tank is concerned I don't think it is cycled if the ammonia remains sky high.

Correct. A cycled tank will have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. Nitrates should (ideally) be kept below about 20 PPM in a tank that has been cycled.

The nitraites and nitrates were also high but then I added the Amquel+ and they went down to 0-so does that mean that the cycle process has to start from the beginning again?

I can't answer that for certain. I would recommend not adding anymore chemicals like that now that you've gotten some fish moved to your other tank.

The only thing you need to worry about adding is dechlorinator (only add this to the new water BEFORE you do water changes...don't add it directly to the tank).

When the ammonia goes down and the nitrates go up then I know the cycle is running it's course?

Ammonia is first to rise in a new tank. Once it drops, you'll see a spike in nitrItes. As the nitrItes drop, you'll then see a rise in nitrAtes. All of these things are indications of a tank that is cycling.

When both are at 0 that means the tank is then cycled?

Bingo! (ammonia and nitrites should ALWAYS be 0 in a cycled tank; nitrAtes levels will be present however, and these should ideally be kept below 20 PPM in a cycled tank)

Why didn't I know this before with all my other tanks? I just thought the first couple fish died from stress. It all makes sense now and I feel rotten for putting these fish through this.

You are correcting the problem, and that is what matters! Don't be too hard on yourself. We've all gotta learn this stuff somehow. I'm still learning a lot too...and you're right, this is a great forum!

I know one thing and that is if they survive they will be the most spoiled, well kept fish around.

Excellent! And yes, just keep doing daily water changes and testing the water. Report back on the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels when you get a chance, and we'll be able to keep pointing you in the right direction.

To be honest, there isn't a whole lot that can go wrong at this point if you keep up with daily water changes. Depending on your water parameters over the next few days, it is quite likely that you'll be able to get away with doing water changes every other day. Just let us know what is happening so we can keep things on the right track.

Big Vine

 

[noncentric]

Hi ttatack, I just wanted to add that the Amquel+ you already have IS a dechlorinator and should be added to any tap water that is added to the tanks. Some water supplies have chlorine added (which will gas-out if water is sitting for 24 hours), but other water supplies have chloramine added (which will not gas-out and must be removed chemically). Both chlorine and chloramine are toxic to fish, and also to the beneficial bacteria you are trying to cultivate...so it's important to make sure they're removed.

Also, the Bio-Spira product is great. If you find a fish store that carries it, then just make sure they keep it refrigerated and it's the "freshwater" version (rather than the "marine" version). For 20 gallons, you'll only need the 1 oz. package (split between the two tanks)...which should cost less then $15. Here's a link to the product's website: http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp

Good luck!

 

[ttatack]

Good news: the fish are all still alive. I used your advice Noncentric and ordered some Bio-spira online. Even with the cost of 2 day shipping it was still cheaper than buying a plane ticket off island to get to the nearest fishstore. By all accounts it sounds like the "miracle cure". I was able to find it at http://fishstoretn.com/watercond_meds.html. They ship it with cold packs and only ship it next day or second day air. I'll be doing a water change and water tests a little later so I will keep you all updated. Thanks again!

 

[Pure]

The only thing you need to worry about adding is dechlorinator (only add this to the new water BEFORE you do water changes...don't add it directly to the tank).

Sorry Big Vine I totally disagree with this statement, the rest of your posts have been dead on. Adding dechlorinator to the tank then filling it with tap water is fine. How do you think people (me) with pythons do water changes.

I just wanted to add that the Amquel+ you already have IS a dechlorinator and should be added to any tap water that is added to the tanks

Noncentric, wile this statement is true, amquel should not be used in a tank that is trying to get the cycle started, for reasons that have already been posted.

Bio-Spira isn't the end all solution to your problem. Yes it will add beneficial bacteria to your tank and help speed things along. But in a tank that is more than moderately stocked you will most likely will still have issues with nitrite, and for tanks that are heavily stocked you may also still see some ammonia.

 

[ttatack]

Would you consider 6 baby cory's to a ten gallon tank "moderately" stocked? How about 4 black skirt tetra's and a very small pleco in another ten gallon? I did not add the Amquel to tank #2. Just "start right" was added to condition the tap water. The ammonia reading in tank #1 even after a 25% water change is reading 2.0. (0 nitrate/nitrites). The ammonia worries me. Should I be changing the water twice a day to keep ammonia down or is once a day adequate?

 

[kll1221]

Sorry Big Vine I totally disagree with this statement, the rest of your posts have been dead on. Adding dechlorinator to the tank then filling it with tap water is fine. How do you think people (me) with pythons do water changes.



.

whew thanks for posting this I was worried as it is how I do it as well.

 

[Pure]

I think the tank with the plec in it will have the heaviest bioload, let me put it this way. We tested biospira on some of our guppie tanks, the results were yes it works and it works well, but we found that in a 10 gal with 10 small male gups less than an inch each we still had nitrite readings.

Daily water changes should be enough. You should also be told that by doing the water changes you are also going to lengthen the amount of time it takes to complete the cycle. BUT then you are also fixing this by adding the biospira.


HTH

 

[Big Vine]

Sorry Big Vine I totally disagree with this statement, the rest of your posts have been dead on. Adding dechlorinator to the tank then filling it with tap water is fine. How do you think people (me) with pythons do water changes[?]

Well, I didn't think about how you people with pythons do water changes, because I've never used a python (if I did, I would have known better ). I just wish that I actually owned tanks big enough for using a python! Sorry for the confusion. You are 100% correct.
I suppose I said what I did because I'm so accustomed to adding stuff to the water prior to adding it to the tank (I've gotten into a habit of avoiding adding things directly to the tank unless they've been already mixed with newly-prepared/dechlorinated water).

Big Vine

 

[noncentric]

Adding dechlorinator to the tank then filling it with tap water is fine. How do you think people (me) with pythons do water changes. .

Yep, adding to the tank is fine, as is adding to buckets/bottles/etc of water before adding to the tank. Either way works, it just depends on which is more convenient for the way you do your water changes.

Noncentric, wile this statement is true, amquel should not be used in a tank that is trying to get the cycle started, for reasons that have already been posted.

The addition of Amquel does have some drawbacks, such as absorbing the ammonia/nitrites that the bacteria need to get started...but the OP is trying to reduce the casualties in the tank, so that seems to be the priority. Also, the Amquel will take care of chloramines (which the OP may have in their water) and which will not be removed by letting tap water sit overnight...and since ttatack already has this product, then it's much easier than having to travel so far just to get a dechlorinator.

ttatack's situation seems to be in a "damage control" situation, not in an "ideal starting from scratch" situation. For example, it would be beneficial to turn the temperature up to 82-84 F to speed up bacterial growth...but that won't work when there's already fish in the tank, so our advice needs to be directed at the exact situation...not necessarily the 'ideal' situation.

I hope the fish are doing better and that they make it through this rough patch. Good luck!

 

[ttatack]

Well, it's day 15 and all the fish in both tanks are still alive but clearly uncomfortable. The ammonia in tank #1 remains at 2.0 even with daily water changes. My question is how long can these fish tolerate this water situation? The nitrates and nitrite level is still at 0. The Bio-spira is on schedule and should arrive tomorrow. Will I see an instant improvement or do we still have a stressful road ahead? Stressful for both me and my fish as I desperately want to save them.