Beginner - 20 gallon. Compatibility and various questions.

[cook7218]

Hello everyone! First post!

I've been waiting to see my 20 gallon with fish in it for a month for the sake of researching, and not messing it up! Unfortunately that was saltwater research, and I've just today settled on freshwater fish that I like.

The species I am looking at are African Cichlids, Convicts, Tiger Barbs, and my favorite, Firemouth Cichlids!

My first question is out of these, what are possible combinations that I can have relating to compatibility, Ph and any other factors you can relate?

My next question is what live plants are an option with my tank? I understand my aquarium is very low light, and was wondering if any plant species that petsmart sells might live with my small 1 watt per gallon. Also, what can you tell me about keeping live plants?

Third question - tell me everything I need to know about different water factors (how to keep them at good levels, what they are, possible issues I might face...) such as Ph, Water Hardness, etc.

Now any tips about substrate for these, and getting the aquarium ready would be great. I am very much a noob, but I'm not slacking on knowledge!

Thanks guys! I really appreciate this forum and I'm excited to get into this rewarding hobby!

 

[lauraf]

Hi, welcome to the forum!
Congrats on your new tank, and it's great to hear that you are taking your time to do some research first.
With a 20g, you may be limited in the kinds and numbers of cichlids you can keep, but it is doable. Same with the barbs.
A good resource is the Aqadvisor tool - AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor - it's not perfect but a good starting point for playing around with different stocking ideas.
Also, are you knowledgeable about the nitrogen cycle? This is probably the most important thing to understand in terms of water quality. Read the stickies on 'Cycling' in this forum. Do yourself a favour and buy a liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Don't fret too much about pH - yes, cichlids prefer harder water, but many of the community beginner varieties like firemouths will adapt to a range of pH.
Yes, you can successfully keep a number of plants with 'low' light. Examples include swordplants, anubias, vallisneria, hornwort, java fern, java moss . . . . Consider buying or making a low-tech CO2 system (google DIY CO2 diffuser), and adding fertilizers. The important thing is maintaining a balance between the three factors (light, ferts, carbon). But to start, I'd select a few hardy plants such as those listed above and focus on your fish.
Substrate is really up to you - some people prefer sand, others gravel. Some people even like neon gravel. Your fish don't mind much.
Please fire away with further questions. There's lots of great advice on this forum and we love helping people get into the hobby.
Cheers,
Laura

 

[FlameTetra333]

If you like African Cichlids, I would suggest the Krib, or Kribensis. They're really good starter cichlids.

 

[KcMopar]

The problem is he has a 20G tank. Not many readily available Africans can go into that tank. Lauraf is right!!!! The aqadvisor site is great but, its a stocking calculator based on square inch of surface area based on a slender fishes length. It does not have any real input on the room a more aggressive fish needs. Dont get me wrong the Aqadvisor is full of great info but more research should be done on the temperament of your fish you wish to put in your tank. Also check out liveaquaria.com. They have care info on many fish. I think the stocking levels they recommend are much more in line with what I would suggest.

 

[cook7218]

Ok, update. I got the cycle and everything dealt with, and my levels have been at 0 pretty consistently which I am happy about! I got a small anubias plant, a big rock, build a cave out of a few more. (I understand that cichlids can topple rocks through digging so all the rocks are based on the bottom glass.)

I got my cichlids - One electric yellow lab, and one kenyi, along with one peppered cory as a cleaner. The cichlids are tiny so I'm hoping the cat will stay bigger than the cichlids at least for a while so they don't kill it. Is that an ok combo for my 20?

Also, would it be ok to add a school of tiger barbs? I understand that the Kenyi actually NEED the tank to be overstocked to control their aggression, and with AQadvisor that combo with 5 tigers is sitting right about 100% stocking, along with being over 100% filtration capacity. Thoughts?

I know typically other species shouldn't be mixed with cichlids, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, or so it appears in many different forums. My theory is that if the fish mostly stay bigger than the cichlids, or around the same size, they won't get messed with for the most part. What are you guys' thoughts?

Thanks for the awesome advice/help to kick off this tank!

P.S. Now I'm kind of panicking because that live aquaria site says max size of 6 inches and min tank of 50 gallons for the species that I got, vs. pet-smart's sticker of max 4.5", recommending a 20 gallon at least. Maybe the ones they breed don't get as big, is that possible? Should I just not worry about it until they're at a size where I need to worry about it?

 

[KcMopar]

You have Afican cichlids these are not to be confused with other cichlids or community fish. These fish you have do get 5-6" long. This is why I made the comment two posts above."The problem is he has a 20G tank. Not many readily available Africans can go into that tank." The do not grow super fast so you have time to upgrade the tank. Also if you where not adding food to the tank while you where letting the tanks sit its not cycled. Do you have a liquid test kit? You will most likely cycle your tank again and will have to do daily or bi-daily water changes until the cycle completes again. Test daily and water change to keep the ammonia to zero-ish. Your cory does not stand much of a chance with the Africans. I see you talk about TIGERS, what are those? If not Africans you can't put them in that tank nor can you really put anything else in there either until you upgrade.

Africans are my most Favorite Fish!!!! They require a lot of extra reading and knowledge though. They are very rewarding pets. You have two really great fish but you need to be getting ready for a bigger tank.

Also re-read my post two up and LauraF's post as well about the suggestions these sites make about stocking fish. These and most internet sites are just good DATA which needs to be combined with other good DATA so a GREAT decision can be made on your particular case.

 

[Fatman]

First off as someone that works at Petsmart, I just want to say don't trust the information on the the signs. A lot of stores still use older tags and even a lot of the new ones aren't perfect (but at least seem to be getting better).

Personally if you can, I would suggest returning the lab and Kenyi. Like mentioned before they'll eventually need a bigger tank. Corys are great bottom feeders but do better in schools (or at least a group of 3-4) than alone. I wouldn't recommend the Tiger Barbs for that tank either. While I've definitely seen them hold their own against both Aftican and New World cichlids, in a 20 gallon tank (even a 20 long) there isn't far to run and really even the Barbs themselves would be pretty cramped in there.
For a Cichlid I would say that a better option would be either Shelldwellers like Multis or Breavis if you wanna go with Africans, or Bolivian Rams if you like South Americans. The Shellies are quite entertaining to watch in species tanks and the Ram would most likely go well in a "semi-aggressive" or community tank.

A lot of cichlids also don't tend to do well in planted tanks because of their desire to dig. Some good low light options that will normally work though are going to be java moss, java fern and Anubias because they can be attached to rocks or driftwood and Hornwort because it doesn't form roots.
Now onto the lighting. Guessing that your tank uses a 15watt 18" T8 bulb (let me know if it's different). While it should be just fine for low light plants like what I mentioned, it won't do any good if it doesn't give off the right wavelengths of light for photosynthesis. While its not perfect you can usually look a a bulbs color temp (kelvin rating). I have the most growth with 6500K and 6700K bulbs. I have also used "plant" bulbs with a more pinkish light, but didn't like what they did to my fish's colors.

*edit*
Note on the Ram if you decide to go with it. I would add it last, after the tank has had some time to mature. While Bolivians tend to be hardier than German Blue Rams, they can still be a little sensitive.

 

[Thyra]

Maybe I missed something but unless you seeded your tank from another tank, I don't think it would be cycled as yet. You say your numbers are at zero, but its the ammonia and nitrite that should be at zero, when its actually cycled you should show some nitrate, like 10 - 20ppm. In order to cycle a tank you have to have something in it, not just the water.

 

[prhelp]

Wow. I've been a member here since 2003, and the advice has gone WAY downhill.

Too many noobs or mere enthusiasts encouraging people to "plunge on ahead" without asking them some basic questions.

Sad to see a board dominated by novices this way. I don't profess to know everything by any means, but I research and ask many, many times -- and listen to a wide variety of opinions -- before I do anything.

The current "experts" here simply have bad advice in 80 percent of cases.

 

[prhelp]

BTW, of all of these posts here, Fatman's is the most knowledgeable.

He works at PetSmart.

PetSmart is something that is often criticized around here.

And yet HIS advice is better than the contributors' here.

Imagine that.

 

[KcMopar]

OK prhelp, spit it out!!!!!!!!!!! What here is bad advice and what would you have suggested!!!!!! Who here don't you like??? We are all big people here and can take constructive criticism but, let us know what any of us said is wrong. You have made several post about bad advice and have not put forth what was posted wrong. If there is something posted wrong it needs to be pointed out so we can stop making mistakes in our suggestions. Please let us know exactly what advice here is wrong. Going around saying we post bad advice and don't correct it is just as bad. Just tell us what mistakes we are making.

 

[FroggyFox]

My word...prhelp and everyone get a grip How's it going stranger?

Just because someone works at petsmart doesn't mean they don't know anything about fish, you know that and so does everyone else. Just because most petsmart stores do not have super knowledgeable fish people doesn't mean none of them do.

I'd agree that your posts are in need of some "evidence". If you disagree with the advice given, tell everyone why and what your advice is instead. This board is full of people with different opinions and different levels of expertise.

Let's play nice, people

 

[FroggyFox]

Cook, I'd have to say that I agree with the group that overall a 20g is not large enough for many of the fish you're looking at and the combination you have is not going to work in the long run. Corys are really happier in groups and they are bottom feeders, but not "cleanup crew". Personally with that size tank I would probably take the cichlids back to the store and get some tiger barbs and some more peppered corys. In a 20 I'd say you should stop at 3 corys and 3-5 tiger barbs (5 really puts you over the top, but I've always had better luck with odd numbers of groups)

You are very right that "odd" mixes of fishes CAN work in a tank, but just because it might work isn't the best reason to try and make it work. Cichlids are so much more aggressive than other FW fish, there are many good reasons for not mixing them.

Oh, and kudos for at least putting for the effort to get into the hobby and learn about it. It is a lot of fun, but there is a lot to learn about every aspect and what you get from a pet store usually is not true or only partially true. Pet stores think of fish as "disposable pets" that really only last a year or so. I've had many fish live long long lives even after coming from a pet store.