biowheel and fishless cycling question

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Laurfa

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#1
Nov 15, 2004
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this is my problem in the simplest of terms:

we've been fishless cycling my tank for a month now. we ran into complications about two weeks ago when a coconut in the tank began to decay, messing with the cycle (the nitrite increased again after having already fallen). we are now at the stage where the nitrite is almost gone... but the ammonia is still very high: at a constant 2-3ppm every day.

the only reason for this that we can think of is my biowheel filter. do these filters take longer to filter out the ammonia? what is going on?

thanks, laura
 

Lotus

Lotus

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Aug 26, 2003
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The biowheel should only serve as a medium for the bacteria to colonize. It is these bacteria that convert the ammonia and nitrites.

If you're fishless cycling you *want* your ammonia to be at 5ppm throughout the cyling process. If it is at 2-3ppm, you should add ammonia to bring it up to 5ppm.
 

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Laurfa

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Nov 15, 2004
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Prune Tracy here:

We're familiar with the method of fishless cycling. I've been with her all the way to deal with any questions. All of my previous cycles have gone off without a hitch but this one is giving us some persistent trouble. We've been keeping the ammonia consistently at 5ppm by once daily checks. What Laura is saying is that after twenty four hours the ammonia only falls to the 2-3ppm range. It wouldn't be of much concern expect that we've nearly completed the nitrite spike and the filter should be capable of dealing with this much ammonia by now. It doesn't make much sense.

We began the cycle around December 16th and it's been excruciatingly slow. We're using a Penquin 125 model on a 20G long. Beyond the capacity of the bio-wheel we've added a mix of Eheim substrates from my filter for extra media. The tank has several peices of (relatively) medium sized driftwood. One peice is wild driftwood that we cured in an oven for the better part of a month and subjected to numerous bleach and acid baths. Taking inspiration from my own tank we added coconut caves, but unlike my own, these started to decompose so they were removed. The tank is lightly planted and growing in. We have CO2 and light and otherwise we have added nothing to the water.

Any ideas on what is happening?
 

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sparkydave

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#5
Dec 1, 2004
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Just my $0.02, I went through this with my Eclipse 12 system, and I don't think there is anything unusually slow with the Bio wheels, but as long as the ammonia is going down I think you're well on your way. With mine the nitrites shot way up, but the ammonia seemed to take a couple days to go down. I just waited until the ammonia went to 0, and put the fish in. No increase in the ammonia levels were seen. Maybe something made the ammonia-consuming bacteria develop a little slower, but if you give it a few more days, the ammonia consumption should increase. My girlfriend and I are very fond of the Bio wheels, they seem to work just fine.

-Dave
 

Lotus

Lotus

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Aug 26, 2003
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Have you checked the pH of the tank? Driftwood could lower it significantly, and can cause cycle problems if it drops below about pH 6.5. If you're adding CO2, this could drop the pH even lower.

If that's the case, you can buffer the water with some baking powder to get it up at pH 7 or so.
 

FroggyFox

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May 16, 2003
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What kind of temperature are you keeping it at? And have you measured the nitrates? Maybe its itching for a 100% water change.

Also...just making sure, no one has tried to help it along and put ammo lock or ammonia pellets or anything in right? I'm just trying to think of things that would give you a false ammonia reading. Did you take some water to the lfs to make sure your ammonia test kit is still OK?

I dont think I've ever heard of the biowheel slowing any cycling down...if anything it would theoretically speed it up as long as the other conditions in the tank were good.

How long ago did you take the coconut out? I wonder if something in it could have killed off your ammonia colony and its trying to build itself back up? but if its been more than a week or so I dont think thats what it is...because the ammonia part of the cycle is usually so much quicker than the nitrite.

Hmm will keep thinking on it. Sorry to hear about the frustrations!
 

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Prune Tracy

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May 6, 2004
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Hey all, Laurfa here,

We took the coconut out about two weeks ago. We are keeping the temp at about 82 degrees, but we've been trying for 86 degrees (I think we got a lemon of a heater, and may need to take it back). We performed a 100% water change as of two weeks ago (to rid the tank of the coconut decay). As of last night, the nitrite had dropped to 0ppm, and the ammonia was still at 2-3ppm. Hmmm... maybe we should take the ammonia test kit in with the heater. Thanks for all of the wonderful suggestions so far. We'll keep you posted! Laura and Pete
 

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sparkydave

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Dec 1, 2004
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The ammonia test kit is probably fine, so long as you're rinsing the test tubes before you use them. Personally, I don't care for the strips; they are expensive and easily contaminated. If you wanted to rule it out, change 50% of the water and see if it reads about 1-1.5 ppm. If you are still adding ammonia every day and it's staying at 2-3 ppm, then probably the ammonia consuming bacteria got set back slightly with the coconut fiasco. Or, stop adding ammonia for a day or two and see if the ammonia goes down on its own.
-Dave
 

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Laurfa

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#10
Nov 15, 2004
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Prune Tracy:

Well we did that. After two days without added ammonia we are still weighing in at 2-3ppm. Yesterday I settled into the belief that there was actually no ammonia in the tank. To this end I zeroed the test kit using tap water and, blow me to Bermuda, that is exactly what I got. The tap water measured 0ppm so I suppose that the test kit is still accurate.

The problem with the coconut is nearing three weeks past so I believe the chain of events it set in motion to be finished. Beyond that, it seems likely that that only afforded the tank extra ammonia but either way, that was long ago. I've begun to suspect the driftwood despite my instincts. Logic tells me that if the wood was adding ammonia to the tank at a rate sufficient to hold a constant level of ammonia then ammonia added on top of this would remain as well. Still, I have noticed a thick film on one of the peices similar to that of the coconut so I have removed it. If this is the culprit then we should know by tonight.

Tonight I will take several samples of Laura's tank water home and run a full gambit of tests. However, the conditions of her tank are essentially the same as my own when I was cycling so I don't think that the water is the appropiate variable. Still, there are plenty of variables and it never pays to intentionally overlook any of them.

With any luck we will be making that special trip to the LFS this weekend and returning with four little puffs. Our thanks to everyone for your continuing help.
 

Lotus

Lotus

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#12
Aug 26, 2003
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What's the pH (and KH) of the tapwater there? Driftwood can cause your pH to get much lower. A low pH (like the one you have) will affect your cycle.

I just checked the water quality report for Portland, and supposedly pH of tapwater is 7.5 to 8.0. I really suspect the driftwood. Driftwood isn't really harmful, and the effect on pH will decrease over time. If you decide it's the driftwood, I recommend you keep it in a bucket for a few weeks (with some water changes), until it stops leaching so many tanins.
 

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