BV's Sick Angelfish

[Big Vine]

I have what I believe are one male (the sick one) and one female angelfish---both still young at approx. 2" in body length (from tip of mouth to caudal peduncle)---residing in a 38 gal. tank with the fish you see in my sig. The angels have been in this tank since about last March.

The gold one (male) has some visible 'anomalies' which aren't consistent with anything I recognize:
Note the small pinkish 'crater/hole' behind his eye---it has a small whitish 'spot/thing' in it.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h... 2007/38 gallon - Community/December19003.jpg

These white markings on the side of his body just don't quite seem right.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h... 2007/38 gallon - Community/December19002.jpg

In addition to what you see in the pics ^^^ , I have also noticed several small whitish spots on him which seemed to somewhat protrude from his body---not ich---one or two in the 'temple' area and one on the tail fin. Upon initial inspection, I thought nothing of it---figured maybe just minor superficial wounds or something. But then I started noticing his body looking a tad bit 'caved-in'---within the past few days/week. I began thinking maybe internal parasites were to blame, and treated with PraziPro several days ago. No sign of improvement, and he started acting more lethargic, so I wanted to find something with metronidazole. Accordingly, I added 4 Jungle Parasite Clear tablets to the tank yesterday. Also started soaking food in Gel-tek Ultra Cure PX, but the sick angel hasn't eaten much at all over the past several days.

His breathing seemed a bit labored last night, but today it was even worse.
He was spending most of his time either resting (vertically) on the gravel below one of the filter outflows or up in the corner with his head pointed up toward the filter outflow on the other side of the tank. Tested the water, and discovered 0.25 PPM nitrItes and 20 PPM nitrAtes (no ammonia though), so I decided it was time to get the meds out of there. Did a ~90% water change, and he seemed to perk up a bit.

Still at a loss, I decided tonight to add 1 tablespoon/5 gal. of aquarium salt.
Not sure whether or not it will help, but I figured it can't hurt. The tank is set at 78-80 degrees F, and has been up and running for over a year now.

Another thing about how the angels interact---may give us some key clues...
The gold one (who is now sick) was purchased as a tiny little guy early in 2007. 5 others were added, only one of which survived (some were killed by juvie crayfish I was raising in their tank). The surviving one is, I believe, a female. The gold (male) has always been boss. He often chases the darker one (female) around---I figured he probably wanted her to breed. But this subsided a bit as the female has pretty much caught up to him in size. Over the past month or so, I've seen them lip-locking and pushing against each other...test of strength, I suppose. I thought perhaps this was the female trying to determine whether or not he would be a suitable mate for her. He has been winning these dominance/strength contests. Even in the past several days, since he's been sick, I've seen them engage in this ritual several times. The rest of the time they are completely peaceful together. The female spent a lot of time hanging around him down near the gravel when he was resting on it and breathing heavy. I'm thinking they are in fact a pair. After all, wouldn't a rival male have taken advantage of his illness and started pecking him to death as he lay on the bottom of the tank?

Any ideas at all of what might be going on???
BV

 

[Lotus]

The male's shape doesn't look right at all in that pic. It looks like he might be suffering from an internal parasite, or perhaps some kind of internal disorder.

The white patches look like he's lost some scales. It could be she's bullying him, or maybe it's a sign of other illness.

I'm not sure what to suggest. I think perhaps feeding with anti-parasite soaked food, and perhaps some extra bloodworms may help, but I'm not sure.
I've fed Gel-tek to fish for several weeks with no bad effects, so I'm pretty sure it's safe to feed for a while.

 

[Big Vine]

Yeah, that's pretty much it, Lotus...I'm stumped.
Like you said, soaking the food with the Gel-Tex anti-parasite stuff can't hurt, and it may very well end up helping. Who knows?

If they are in fact actually fighting, they must be awfully sneaky about it.
'Worst' I've seen is this 'test of strength' thing they do whilst lip-locked together---and even that only lasts a few seconds at a time. It doesn't happen all the time either, and the rest of the time they seem to chum around together. I'm totally baffled as to why he might be sick.


I appreciate the reply.
I'll just keep on top of water quality and keep offering the medicated food.

BV

 

[Katie217]

BV
This is how all my previous oscars looked, right before death
I really hope you caught it in time. And I agree, internal something is going on. Good luck man

 

[silver dollars]

I agree with Lotus, his body shape doesn't look right. And that pink crater behind his eye looks like something that my now be an internal illness. Do you have any other place to put him until fully recoverd? And i think that the white spots may be scale loss, not to sure though. You should check out some sites about angelfish sicknesses. Good luch BigV!

 

[Big Vine]

A friend was over last night and observed that the sick angelfish would immediately sink to the bottom whenever it stopped flapping its pectoral fins. He then remarked that perhaps the angel is sick with a swimbladder issue which may or may not be related to a bacterial or parasitic infection.

Could the 'concavity' of its mid-section be related to a swimbladder issue?


The big question in my mind is this---is it worth commencing treatments in the tank when he appears to be showing signs of improvement (he ate fairly voraciously during several feedings just last night) AND, if I do not treat, is there any chance that this could get better on its own? Which brings up the question of why in the world did this ever happen in the first place?

Here's the video I promised from yesterday:
YouTube - Sick Angelfish

BV

 

[Big Vine]

A couple new observations...
First off, it appears that the hole behind his left eye now has a black pepper-like fleck in it. Also, the whitish 'nodule' or 'cyst' or whatever you wanna call it (located on his 'shoulder') also appears to have a black pepper-like fleck underneath/within it. Furthermore, the area in the middle of his dorsal fin where it meets his body used to have a whitish/pinkish 'nodule' or 'cyst,' which is now consisting of only a black pepper-like fleck which appears to be at least partially (if not fully) contained within the base of the fin itself.

So what does this tell me?
Nothing definitive based on the research I've done---it doesn't quite seem to match anything I've come across. Any ideas? Some sort of parasite, perhaps?

Now leaning toward parasitic, I decided to treat with PraziPro. That was 3 days ago.
It would seem that these black pepper-like flecks have become somewhat more apparent, but it's difficult to say with any degree of certainty.

Another new thing I've noticed is what appears to be a clear gelatinous-looking, horizontally-positioned 'worm-like critter' located at the base of his tail (where the rays meet his body). It is a few millimeters in length, and I can only assume that it is some sort of fluke.

He is still feeding, but hardly touches anything involving any form of Gel-Tek treatment...be it anti-parasitic or anti-biotic. For this reason I've basically just gone back to feeding him regular food so that he eats and hopefully builds his strength up.

Any thoughts at all?
BV

 

[Lotus]

You could look into black spot disease or digenetic flukes (digenea) to see if that's what he has. My book says it's usually harmless in the long term.

You can try feeding with garlic soaked foods. Garlic has a mild antiparasitic action, and isn't harmful.

 

[phallan]

I have a freshwater angel fish that is bent over and swimming on its side can anyone help. What can I do , I don't want to lose her.