Changing substrate, UGF

[Bren]

When I got my tank the guy at the fish store convinced me to use my old equipment to get started, and then replace things as I went. Here is the problem, I want to remove my UGF and replace my substrate! My tank is a 29 gallon tank with seven neons, and live plants(stem, fern, sword). The new substrate would hopefully help the swords(the stems do pretty much fine).

1) Can I just turn off the UGF and plug the hole with a cap and leave it in the tank. The guy at the LFS suggested that the UGF plate is good to have in there regardless of if you are running the filter or not, what do you guys think. I am going to turn it off in the next couple of days, how should I deal with it? Leave it or take it out.

2) What should I do about the substrate, currently it is the apoxy(i think) coated gravel. I wish I had done it different from the beggining, but I didn't. So what should I do now? Should I try to remove it all and replace it, or just some of it and put new substrate on top. I have had suggestions for using laterite or soil and a small top layer of gravel.

Is it possible to do all this without moving the seven neons, or should I put them in my ten gallon for a week. Are they going to hate me forever?

Thanks so much for any help you all can provide.
Bren

 

[RedTurquoise]

Hurray! Another ugf gone!

Hehe! I changed my substrate with fish in the tank, took out all the plants, replanted and put new driftwood in my 90G planted! Kind of messy but in a day or two its all right. I had fun and I love rearranging the scenery every once in awhile. The substrate I would recommend is flourite unless you remove all the water. Laterite, soil is very messy. If you do have the option of removing your neons, by all means.

Another considertion is your bio filter. What kind of filter do you use other than the ugf? If you do not have any other filter, get one and leave it run on your present tank about 4 weeks. If you remove your gravel now, you will start to recycle it again and thats a pain in the butt, imo!

 

[Bren]

More questions, some answers

I have had a new filter running for about 2 1/2 weeks now. I can wait 4 weeks if I have too, the guy who owns the LFS said 13-15 days should do...

Do you recommend that I go to only flourite, or that I should mix it in, or should I take out my gravel, put in flourite and cover it with a nice small gravel?

Thanks again
Bren

 

[Bren]

UGF

Also, should I remove the plates or leave them in and just remove the pump?

Thanks
Bren

 

[Wonderwoman]

wouldn't there be a lot of gunk under the plates? i'd at least clean them out really thoroughly...? of course if you were replacing the substrate and using another filter all that stuff would eventually get sucked out anyway...hmmmm. in which case the plates wouldn't be doing much. for me, being the person i am, i'd have to take them out, but i'd imagine it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other. naturally, please correct me if i am wrong here

 

[Vyache]

Hmmm. Now you've got me thinking. I set up a 55g tank about two months ago. My dad owns a rock shop and sells semiprecious gemstones and rock. We came up with the idea of using tumbled amathyst for gravel. Only problem was that I wanted to set the tank up immediately because I knew that a local fish store was getting a shipment of discus and would be selling them very cheap. I ended up using just crushed and not polished amathyst for the time being. Now the tumbled amathyst is ready. Besides the undergravel filter, I have a fluval 304 canister filter running in the tank. Its only been in there for about a week and a half though. I have some flourite that I thought about using in a small plant only tank, but now it seems like a good idea to do away with the undergravel filter and put a layer of flourite on the bottom of the tank, plant live plants in it and then cover it with tumbled amathyst. There is a large piece of african swahala root driftwood in the tank however, and it is starting to become covered with java moss; also it covers about half of the tank floor. Perhaps a few pots with flourite in them around the wood would be more appropriate. Currently there are three discus, 5 cardinals, 3 neons, 2 dwarf gouramis, a red tailed shark and a clown loach in the tank. I'm not sure how I'm going to pull off a gravel switch. Another note, The stand that I've got the tank on allows me to look up under the tank. I stuck my head under there and looked up under the undergravel filter with a flashlight. GeeHosifat! There are tons of tubifex worms, dafnia and other critter under there, its frikin' amazing! By the way the amathyst is somewhat translucent, so I could see some light coming up through the purple gravel when the flashlight was under there. I'm thinking about putting some rotating LEDs down there. It would be very subtle but could be very cool.

 

[rummynose]

I had a 29 gallon I did the same thing you are doing. I left the plates in and replaced half of the tank gravel with flourite. Then let the tank clean out over a day (flourite is pretty messy even when you wash it). Then I replaced the other half, all with the fish in it.

Word of advice, take the plates out. My plants (swords, crypts, and such) grew intangled in the plates so much that it was nearly impossible to do any rearranging without buchering the plants and tearing up the tank.

 

[RedTurquoise]

I would take the whole ugf out! A couple of reasons! First, you will be needing at least 2" of substrate for plants to root. If you have the plates under the gravel, you add take away another 1" of room in the tank. Secondly, crap will get under the plates and may cause massive problems like decaying and disease. Lastly, as mentioned, the roots will also grow into the plates and if you want to move or remove them at a later date, you basicly have to cut or tear them out because they are anchored to the plates.

When I change gravel in my 90G, I did it in 2 two days. I bought a acrylic 24x24 piece from Home Depot, cut to fit my tank and used it as a divider to separate the fish from the work area. The next day I did the other side. Expect your tank to be really messy the first couple of days and after a week you will hardy notice.

You can use all flourite, not a problem unless you do not like the look. You can also cover it with gravel or mix it together. I would recommend at least an 1" maybe 2" of flourite then 1" of gravel covering. If mixing, use at least 70/30 instead of 50/50 flourite to gravel ratio.

Another thing, the more you can take out, the less that gets in the way!

 

[lizwinz]

i'm going to take my ugf out too...as soon as i figure out what kind of filter would be best

i was going to buy a garbage can and fishless cycle the filter that way (i need new garbage cans anyway so ill use it after i'm done)

is this overkill? or would it be better than just putting the filter on the tank and letting it run for a month?

--liz

 

[Bren]

THANKS!!!

WOW! Thanks for all the advice, I think I now know everything I asked and then some.

I think I will transfer the neons to the other tank, and then make the changes, and then transfer them back. I am going to get some flourite and cover it with gravel that I like the look of better.

Problem is, I got a tetra looking sick today, so I guess I am going to have to put this off. The other tank also has a platy not looking so good. So it will be a couple of weeks before I make any changes, but I will tell people how it went if any one is curious.

THANKS FOR THE HELP!

 

[happyfishies]

I voted 'crazy'...

...OH, you meant about the substrate thing...

love you, b.

 

[RedTurquoise]

Liz,
There are sooo many filters now a days, just take your pick pretty much! You will find that with most common filters, some people love them, some people hate them. From my own experience though, aquaclears are the best because they are cheap and reliable.

About the cycling the new filter, fishless in the can would be the best because it will colonize a large bio that will be sufficent for your tank. The disadvantage of leaving the new filter in the tank is you do not know how much bacteria is actually growing in the new filter until its too late. It most likely will not be able to carry your tanks bio however the advantage is that there will be some bacteria therefore you do not start from scratch.

 

[lizwinz]

thanx red--what i really want is a eheim canister thermofilter but...$$$$

i was thinking either a whisper or some kind of submirsible but im now i'm going to look into aquaclears as well, i dont think ive noticed them before

--liz

 

[Vyache]

I've found some great deals on fuval canister filters. After buying a 404 for $111 on eBay and a 304 for $80 on aquabid (both including shipping), I started finding them for even cheaper. I saw 404s for $75 at a fish stores sidewalk sale and they had like 40 of them. I'm very happy with their performance. The operate very quietly. I can't hear them at all unless I turn off all other powerheads and airpumps in the room.

 

[lizwinz]

hmmm...im not in a hurry, so i do have time to look for deals

i dont think a canister would fit (i'll have to check) in my cabinet for the 35gal hex...but maybe for the 55gal it would work, i was going to buy 2 filters for it anyway and if i can find good deal a canister it might be the same about the same cost as couple whispers

i like the idea of a canister they just always seemed so expensive...thanx for the info...i'm going to go look around on ebay and aquabid now

--liz