Chemistry and Rocket science......

Purple

Superstar Fish
Oct 31, 2003
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#1
OK tech heads - got an odd-ball question for ya.......(should keep the chemists amongst us entertained).....

There is a product called "Nitragon" - http://www.fishathome.co.uk/resinfilters_nitragon.htm

In common with "nitrasafe" by Interpet - it seems to be a granular nitrate/phosphate "sponge".

The deal is, that as water passes through this medium, the media removes (soaks up) 90% of NO3 and Phosphate on each pass. The Interpet version comes in a small sachet - the Nitragon product is packed into a 2ft cannister.

Once either the sachet or the Nitragon cannister has reached its capacity to hold back Nitrate, it can be 're-charged' by a slow pass of high saturation salt solution. This flushing process can be repeated many times before the product can no longer function - hard to put a number on it, but let's suggest it's a 3 figure sum starting with a one.

As my tap water contains 30ppm NO3, my interest in this will come as no surprise ...... nor will the fact that I have purchased said Nitragon can. Results so far are excellent - I run it on a closed circuit on my tanks - >40ppm start - <20 ppm finish - and then onto the next tank. After 50 gals of use - a simple salt flush, and we're away again.....

Now then .... I need opinions on what this stuff actually is, how it works, and how the salt flushes the stuff out.

As to the why of the question ......well - I always was one to find a way through a problem, but I also need to understand what I'm doing.........if I get this wrong, the potential for disaster is rather high........

It turns out that a friend of mine works for the water company. Their way of removing Nitrate from their systems is pretty much the same as above - they run 3 cannisters - all packed with a media that removes 90% NO3 per pass, flushed by a salt solution when it becomes innefective. Of course, each of their "cannisters" is the size of an articulated truck - but hey - the theory stands up.

Now.....I'm not insane enough to suggest I should get a de-nitrator the size of a truck.......but then I'm not exactly 'normal' either - so I would be unlikely to say no to a 50 gal drum of the media they use, and then making up my own 2ft cans.

But first I need to undestand exactly what's going on in there - which is where you guys come in..............any ideas ?
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#6
Dissolved Oxygetn content normally or in this Dissolved Organic compounds. They use metal zeolite compounds - Iron or aluminium typically I think. Occasionally Rowaphos and Julian Sprung have a little scrap in the mags over which is better.
So do you think it will eventually be a problem for you that you're swapping nitrate for chloride ions (which aren't typically tested for). You've swapped 20 ppm nitrate for 20 ppm Cl- ions, possibly two or 3 times more as I don't know the valency of a nitrate ion.
I would say you can use the commercial product though make sure it's in a form you can use.
 

Purple

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Oct 31, 2003
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#7
swapping nitrate for cl-ions only occours during the flush which is done to waste - then 5 gals of tap water is run through the unit - also to waste

or am I mis-understanding what you're saying ?

as for DOC's - those expressed as phosphates also get taken out by the nitragon can - those remaining are dealt with by water changes in the usual manner

my motivation to go this route is strictly for nitrate lowering purposes - not to avoid normal maintenance procedures
 

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Somonas

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Oct 22, 2002
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#8
but my question is how did the nitrates get there in the 1st place?
in aquariums they come from decomposing fish byproducts and what not or from DOC's themselves. - I would assume that an equivalent amount of DOC (dissolved organic compounds) are released as well

so which brings me to my question if there is nitrates in your well or tap water, would there not be an equivalent amount of DOC's in there as well?

if the answer to my question is "no" or "probably not" then it stands to reason that any sort of "denitrator" would be useless in the aquarium environment because it is not solving the underlying issue (DOC's)
 

Lou

Large Fish
Jul 18, 2003
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#9
His nitrate problem in tap water is probably from chemical fertilization of ag lands. So DOC which I would read dissolved organic carbon (but that might not be what Somonas was after) would not be at play.

As far as the Cl ions being swapped off the resin it would be 3:1 nitrate to cloride. I don't know if all that Cl would pollute a tank somehow. Maybe wreck havoc with plants?