Cloudy green water and rotting fins

[crazy_fish]

Please help!

The water in my tank is cloudy and green, and my fish are suffering from fin-rot that just won't go away. The chemistry is fine, pH 7, Ammonia zero, Nitrites zero, Nitrates between 5 and 10 PPM with water changes, temperature is a nice steady 80F. I changed the carbon element on the weekend to clear this up, but it's only getting worse.

Also, my fish have been suffering from fin-rot, and my SAE's now have arched spines and swim by wobbling instead of pumping. I have treated the tank with 5 different medecines for bacteria, fungus and parasites, but nothing is helping.

About 2 months ago, I removed all the aggressive fish from the tank, including the Kribensis Cichlids and the Tiger Barbs. I want a peaceful community tank to help me relax after work, not a cloudy swamp!

What should I do to save my fish?

30 gallon freshwater
4 serpae tetra
5 black skirted tetra
2 SAE's
1 common pleco
3 lemon tetra

 

[CoNMaN]

If it is fin rot, take out filtration, and treat with an atiobiotic, otherwise your anitibiotic may only be killing your helper bactiera used in teh cycle, if you treat all you r fish in the 30gal it will take quite a bit of the stuff too. Maybe ten days of treating so clean the tank super good first.

As for the cloudy green water that is algea, work on that after your fish are healty, it only looks bad to you.

 

[crazy_fish]

Any other suggestions or feedback?

I have treated my tank with 5 medicines for fungus, bacteria and parasites.

The water is getting so bad that you can't see from one end to the other in the long direction, and it's only 36" long.

HELP!

 

[crazy_fish]

And yes, I took the filters out while treating with meds...

 

[inline_sk8a]

so u have taken out the filteration, the best thing to do as been stated before just treat it now until you get some possive result

is there algae on the glass because this could cause the water to look more green than it really is!!

 

[Cackett]

dosen't sound good . but fin rot sounds right

 

[Purple]

Difficult to say without being there - but.........

There was a time when i couldn't get my water to clear - it felt like a mini-cycle, and the water conditions were causing signs of fin rot.

I was chucking meds in all over the place to no great effect - then a friend of mine just said "don't feed them for 5 days - let the tank recover"

I was dubious - but it worked a treat. 2 days later it cleared up and has stayed clear since.

 

[wayne]

I agree with purple. I don't care what your nitrate kit says, and if you have green water I'd expect it to be zero as they're likely using it all. Nonethe less it sounds like a dirty tank with bacterial problems causing fin rot.
Water changes, how big ,often, depth substrate, how often hoovered?

 

[crazy_fish]

I'll give that a shot

Thanks Purple and wayne,

I'll try not feeding for a few days if that clears it up.

To answer the questions above, it's not algae on the glass because when I siphon the water into my white bucket, the drained water is still murky and green. Also, because I can see the few spots where it is on the glass.

I have been doing my 20% changes every week, and I vacuum the gravel each week, though I can only get about 2/3 done before the drain bucket is full, so normally 1/3 goes for 2 weeks uncleaned.

A couple weeks ago, I was getting frustrated with the water, so I did 70% changes two days in a row. I know that's extreme, but that water was brutally disgusting. The water stayed clear for about an hour, and within 4 days, it was back to murky, and the ammonia cycle was not upset according to my tests.

I've been doing 10% changes every two days lately to get the algae under control. I'm going to assume it's from over-feeding, and keep changing water until it settles down.

I figure the fin rot will stay out of control until the water clears up, so for me the top priority is clearing the water. Also, I'm getting a little frustrated at paying 10 bucks a shot for meds to save 10 bucks worth of fish, especially what it makes the water so brutal again...

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Purple]

OK dude - if this works, you'll know by Monday.

A couple of hints to help things along a bit..........

Don't change more than 30% of your water in one week. Anywhere near the 50% mark is pushing your luck, and looking at what you've done so far (we all get panicky when it gets real bad) your tank is probably going through a mini-cycle, as well as the original over feeding problem.

Adding the meds probably hasn't harmed anything - but removing the carbon to accomodate the meds will have slowed down your filters ability to get rid of the excess waste. Particulates get taken out as usual, but with no carbon you lose the ability to remove a lot of other toxins, espescially in a build up situation, which is what you've got (by the sound of it). So hold back on the meds and get your carbon working for you.

Once your water has cleared up, give the fish a week or two to recover, and you'll probably find a lot of the fin rot will stop or at least stabalise. THEN decide whether to treat for fin rot or not.

Once you don't need meds anymore - get your carbon back in again asap. A lot of well balanced tanks don't really need carbon, but it sounds like yours does - at least for now.

Let us know how you get on - (and good luck)

 

[wayne]

How deep is the gravel? I've gradaully reduced mine to help hygiene.
Don't worry about the water changes. I change at least 50% a week total for some tanks. What sort of filter, what sort of flow? Any plants?
Do you have a photo?

 

[animal lover]

I had tis exact same problem with an algae bloom in the water, for starter its mainly the temperature and the food in the water causing it....Do you have iredecent(sp) or floourecent lights...if you have iredecent lights turn them off for about a week, do a water change obviously when cleaning the gravel and lighten up on the feeding amount, you don't have to stop completely but definately lighten up...also try to keep the temp at aroud 74 to 78 and it should work good....It did for me...good luck clearing it up

 

[crazy_fish]

It's getting better

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the advice. I've been doing a balance between all these suggestions, and the water is definitely improving, probably 50% better than my first email.

I did a 10% water change on Tuesday using just a tube to skim the surface water to clear up any surface proteins. The walls of the aquarium were pretty ugly at the water's surface. I did a 20% water change on Tuesday and vacuumed the gravel, though not too thoroughly, you can still see some poop at the bottom.

I cut their feeding back to about a quarter of their normal amount. I have a problem with not feeding at all, since my 5 fully grown black-skirts normally eat about 1/4 the weight of my baby pencil tetras, and I have seen them break up small fish if they're still hungy after meal time.

Anyways, with reduced feeding and the cleaning, the water seems to be recovering fairly well. It's still cloudy, but on Monday, visibility was less than 12", and now it's up to about 30".

I'll keep you posted as it progresses, and I'll try to post some pics on the weekend. I tried to post pics last night, but if you exceed the 50kB limit on this site, it loses the entire message.

Answers to your questions:

I will clear up the water, then decise whether I want to medicate or see if the fin rot clears up by itself.

The gravel is about 2" deep throughout.

The filter is a powerhead only, with a sponge and carbon, I don't use that ammonia-absorbing stuff. Up until this mini-cycle, I've never had any problems with the chemistry. Tons of flow, I don't know what rate, but it's a powerhead 300 serving a 30 gallon tank.

No live plants, I had some before, but they all died due to lack of light.

My light is fluorescent, with a spectrum that makes the fish show more colors, but does not have the light bands that plants and algae prefer.

The water temperature was a steady 80F, I turned it down to 78F last night.

cheers

 

[wayne at home]

Well if your gravel is 2 inches deep without plnts it's going to be the classic 'nutrient trap' - thin it out fellow, or you're fighting an uphill struggle. You will be appalled at what's down in it's depths - a mass of rotting gunk.

 

[browneu]

Hello,

I would like to add my 2 cents worth. Green water is unicellular algae and it won't go away with just water changes. It is usually caused by an excess of phosphates. If you are overfeeding your fish you'll get excess phosphates in your tank from the fish food. You should treat your fish for the fin rot immediately. The longer you wait to treat it the harder it is to cure. I agree that you should remove the carbon while medicating but proper filtration must still be maintained since fin rot is often a sign of poor water quality. To acheive this filtration you should rent a diatom filter from your local fish store. If you have the budget you should even purchase one. The diatom filter will filter out things from your tank as small as one micron. This will clear your water from the algae, the free floating bacteria causing your fin rot, any fungus that may be in the tank, and it will even filter out ick when ick is in the free floating stage. In a tank your size your water will be clear within an hour. So you should medicate for the recommended time that is on the medicine and run the diatom filter an hour a day to maintain proper water quality. That is just my 2 cents worth though.

 

[browneu]

Sorry, I forgot to add that if you don't have any plants you should only have about an inch of gravel. Anything more is just asking for some nasty stuff to happen.

 

[crazy_fish]

The water looks great now

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the help! I finished the round of no food treatment early last week, and the water is very clear and has no odor. I have resumed feeding them in the evening, though they are getting about half as much as they used to get.

I did my regular scheduled 20% water change with vacuum on Thursday, and based on the feedback, I sucked the gravel deeper to see how much gunk comes out. There was not much more gunk than usual, mostly strings of pleco poop and some brown mud. I will try to thin out the gravel a little bit if I run into any more problems.

The fins on all the fish are growing back nicels, and show no signs of continued deterioration. I am keeping an eye on the fin rot, but as I mentionned earlier, I am frustrated with spending 15 to 20 bucks on meds for fish that cost a total of 10 bucks. If the fin rot becomes a problem again, I will treat it, but it appears to be under control and healing fine.

I have a problem with diatom filters, I did get that advice from several people. Diatom filters are treating the symptom, not the problem. Diatom filters would have sucked the crap out of my water in about an hour, and polished it up nice and pretty. But I would have continued feeding them the same way, and the water would have become cloudy again within a week. Now I know the cloudiness was caused by overfeeding, and I know how to control it and how to cure it.

For others out there experiencing the same problem, purple and wayne gave great advice. By reducing the amount of food they get, the water has remained clear.

Cheers