Cory Cat Deaths?

[f8fan]

So two weeks ago I had a nice stable 25 gallon tank, It held two kribensis, three bronze cory catfish and one lone Buenos Aires tetra. Originally, I had three tetras, one got killed by the kribs after a batch of babies, and the other two withered away and died. The last one died a couple weeks ago. I have to be honest, I wanted to get rid of them anyway, but that’s another story…
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So – a week or so ago I bought three more cory cats from a new LFS along with a new Pearl Gourami and a Blue Paradise Gourami. None of the cories lived more than a couple days. I thought they had some kind of fungus, so I put some Fungus Cure into the tank. Two of them had already died before I added the meds, and the next morning the last one died. Along with my three older, established ones!
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</o>That next night after I added the Fungus Cure, and with all my cories dead, I got home from work and noticed that my filter had stopped working. So – I went to Petco and bought a new filter (Marineland Penguin 200) and a new piece of driftwood that I soaked for a couple hours. Also that day, I received an online order of new Aquarium stuff including Genesis De-Chlor. I hadn’t used this particular brand for a while, had been using Stress Coat. So – I did a 50% water change with Genesis, installed the new filter (along with some carbon to remove the meds) and put the driftwood in the tank. I used the old filter cartridge from my old filter, so I had the same established bacteria.
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Last night I bought three new albino cory cats. Tonight all three are dead! I tested my water, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates around 10. I’m not sure what’s going on and why my kribs and gourmiess are all doing so well but cories die almost upon impact. Could it be the Genesis? OR the new driftwood? I soaked it, but it’s so large that I couldn’t get it all in the sink, I had to alternate sides for an hour or so. I thought the worse thing from new driftwood would be cosmetic, as far as the tannins leaking into the water. My temp is about 80 degrees. I am so confused why the cories are all dying so quickly.

 

[Lotus]

Are the kribs bothering the cories at all?

Have you checked the pH (in case the driftwood shifted it)?

What kind of symptoms were the cories showing?

 

[TabMorte]

Ohhh the poor cories.

Are you sure it's not the kribs? I was told not to keep Kribs with my cories because the kribs are won't tolerate the cories in their turf.

Have you tested your water for copper? Are you sure that the anti fungal stuff is gone? I know a few people who have lost cories to meds because they're way more sensitive then scaley fish.

 

[trailmule]

I've bought about 7 pygmy corys so far, in batches of 2 or 3, and only the original 2 are still alive. My water is fine, temp is good, fish were acclimated correctly and most lived a day before dying with no symptoms other than inactivity.... I have no idea what happened to all of them after the first ones. Maybe I got bad ones from the lfs....

must be a cory thing... sucks because I'd love to have a few more. These two seem to be happy with each other...

 

[f8fan]

Are the kribs bothering the cories at all?

Have you checked the pH (in case the driftwood shifted it)?

What kind of symptoms were the cories showing?

Well, I've gotten to see the kribs mating behavior and I don't believe in the last two weeks they have been mating, due to their coloration and behavior. And they never really do more than rush over and make it known that they don't want another fish where they are, when they are being bossy. But who knows.

I haven't checked the ph...I'll do that tonight. It would make sense after the driftwood was added...but my first batch of cories died before adding the driftwood, along with my other established ones.

The cories act very still when thy are put in the tank. They don't move much, they just sort of hide in a corner. One was belly up an hour after I put him in, I gently moved him to see if he was dead and he righted himself and swam to a corner. The next morning - all three were dead. Thier bodies look normal, maybe a bit white, but that's because they were dead all night in the tank before I noticed them. No marks, streaks or bite marks.

I'm reasonably sure the meds were gone, I ran a large carbon packet, along with the old filter cartridge for 24 hours after also doing a 50% water change. I don't have anything to test copper with, maybe I'll just do another large water change tonight and see how the tank does this weekend. I'm running two cartridges in the filter, my old established one with plenty of bacteria and a new one that has carbon in it.

One other thing, the driftwood has random, tiny little white patches on it if you look close. I thought this could just be bacteria colonizing and growing, but does anyone think that might be something to be concerned about?

 

[f8fan]

I just thought of something. Genesis in incredibly concentrated, and I know I have probably used WAY WAY more than necessary in the replacement water...could this be an issue? Could it be damaging their gills?
I'm used to using a capfull of whatever I'm using, and I tried to splash less Genesis in, but in reality I only need to use a couple drops per gallon or so. I know I have used WAY too much.

 

[TabMorte]

It could be.

I try not to medicate my tank with anything stronger then Melafix because they're very very sensitive to medications. If I have to use something stronger I either take them out or take the sick fish out and medicate else where.

 

[f8fan]

It could be.

I try not to medicate my tank with anything stronger then Melafix because they're very very sensitive to medications. If I have to use something stronger I either take them out or take the sick fish out and medicate else where.

Right on. Genesis is actually a Dechlorinator, not a medication, but I agree with you, everything in moderation!

I'm pretty sure that's what's going on. I really overdosed it! I just read the label closer and one teaspoon dechlorinates 90 gallons of water! I bet I used a teaspoon per two gallon bucket! Yikes. My poor fish

Well, tonight dad krib is dead. And mom krib is no where to be seen and she usually comes out as soon as the lights get turned on. The pearl gourami's eyes are clouded. I just did a 50% change and used maybe a 1/16 teaspoon of Genesis. I need to get a dropper!

I'm going to keep on doing partial water changes daily with less that 20% water so I'm not even going to treat the replacement water. Guess I'm not so crazy about Genesis anymore . I've never had problems with it in the past, but unless I learn how to dose it properly, I'm gonna kill my fish.
And also, here's a photo of the white fuzz growing on the new driftwood...is this normal?

 

[TabMorte]

Do you have another tank you could move them into until the fungus on the driftwood clears up.

 

[f8fan]

No, but I can yank the driftwood, think I should?? I can always use it in the hermit crab tank....

 

[Lotus]

I doubt it's the driftwood causing the problems. It's common to get a little fungus on new driftwood, and it's generally harmless. Especially if you had deaths before the driftwood, I'd assume it's not the cause.

It sounds like some kind of bacterial issue in the fish. I've had similar things in the past. A good antibiotic may help. A combo of Maracyn One and Two together usually knocks out most things.

 

[f8fan]

Hmm. So, this morning the blue paradise gourami was dead. I set out to do some research and determine what's going on!

I started off with a slew of tests. Lo and behold, I see something that makes a ton of sense! I don't know if I used the wrong drops in my test the other night when I tested...but here's the results.

Ammonia...8 PPM??????
No nitrites, minimal nitrates.

Obviously I messed up my prior tests with the drops I used when I did the ammonia portion.

So I do some research on the active ingredient in Genesis...Sodium Thiosulphate. I learned that overdosing with it creates excess ammonia from the chloramine elimination process. That's it, that's it! That's what was killing all my poor fish, they were poisoned by ammonia from me grossly overdosing the Genesis.

I just changed about 80% of the water and treated it exactly as the bottle said with some Ammo Lock 2 I had kicking around. I'll test again later once everything settles down. On a good note, after I filled the tank back up, "mom" krib came out of hiding...but she looks pretty bad. She is covered with what looks like ich. I'm not holding out much hope for her, but I'm hesitant to treat the ich right away, the poor thing has been through enough. I'm gonna leave the lights off and not poke around the tank today to let her and the pearl gourami relax in water with no ammonia.

So, lesson learned, overdosing with dechlor can be a grave situation for your tank!

 

[Lotus]

Hmmm... the ammonia produced by breaking the chloramine bond shouldn't be that much. As far as I know, it will only produce as much ammonia as is in the chloramines. Perhaps check some dechlorinated water to see what you're dealing with.

Because your test kit reads for both NH3 and NH4, you'll probably still get a reading for ammonia even with Ammolock in there. Keep an eye on the fish to make sure they're not gasping/hiding/looking unhappy. I guess some careful water changes are in order.

 

[f8fan]

Hmmm... the ammonia produced by breaking the chloramine bond shouldn't be that much. As far as I know, it will only produce as much ammonia as is in the chloramines. Perhaps check some dechlorinated water to see what you're dealing with.

Because your test kit reads for both NH3 and NH4, you'll probably still get a reading for ammonia even with Ammolock in there. Keep an eye on the fish to make sure they're not gasping/hiding/looking unhappy. I guess some careful water changes are in order.

Indeed Personally, I'm not a fan of Ammo Lock because it lulls people into a false security that it instantly detoxifies ammonia...it's a band-aid and/or masking product. However - it was the only other dechlor I had on hand and I'm really hesitant on using Genesis until I get a dropper. And since I only have two fish in there now I wanted to get them some relief.
I'm going to keep on doing water changes each day. I will get some normal dechlor (API Water Conditioner? I think it's called?) I have always used and go from there. I'm reasonably confident that the bacteria levels in my tank are sufficient to handle bioload, it's a relief to see no nitrites! I was worried that I had killed my bacteria.

Easy does it from here. Hopefully in a couple of weeks, with nice safe water changes and constant testing, I can re-stock slowly.

 

[Lotus]

To be honest, almost all dechlorinators use the sodium thiosulphate, it's just a question of the concentration.

Ammolock is fine in emergency situations like this. Better that the ammonia or nitrites are nontoxic than killing the fish. I guess you'll be doing a lot of water changes in the next few days, but hopefully it's a short spike.

Sorry about the fish

 

[f8fan]

ok, thanks, Lotus
I just wanted to state: Genesis is an incredibly concentrated dechlorinator. One drop per gallon, as I have learned. I used a teaspoon full per 2 gallon bucket. I overdosed hundreds...perhaps thousands of times over. I just wanted to save people from this in the future if people happen to use Genesis as their regular de-chlor....as it obviously is toxic at these levels. Hopefully, somewhere in the future, should someone do a search on this, they will benefit from my mistake and fish losses

 

[TabMorte]

f8fan,

I'm sorry to hear that's what happened but glad to know you figured it out! I'll keep it in mind if I ever use genisis, though with that concentration, given the size of my tank, I doubt I will.

 

[f8fan]

Thanks! This morning mom krib is out and about and looking quite a bit better, all nice and colored up and picking around looking for food. Pearl gourami (what a tough fish!! Can't believe it!) is looking great, too. It's eyes are almost normal again.