Cycling question

[Davidson]

Ok first let me say i do not have live rock in my tank, Can’t really give a good reason why, I just didn't feel like going that direction when I first set up the tank. Having been reading a lot on the internet and a few books I have come to realize the folly of this decision. But, seeing as how I am where I am I have a question.

I have a 36 gallon, comer unit tank (pie shaped). For equipment I am using a CPR wet dry filter with bio bale (sp), an Aqua C Remora protein skimmer, and a Fluvial 205 canister filter loaded with sponges and carbon for mechanical filtration. My tank has been up for about 5 -6 weeks now and chemically nothing really seems to be happening. At one point I had 4 small chrome’s and a yellow tail damsel, but right now I only have 3 of the chromies. My water tests are as follow:
Ammonia 0.25 PPM (only ever got to about 0.50ppm)
Nitrites 0.1 PPM
Nitrates (either) 50ppm or 250 ppm (i am not sure of the difference between the highside reading and the low side reading) anyway it is the highest area on the card
Ph is about 8.2
ALK is in the normal range (according to the card)

Now here are my issues. My readings have held constant for at least the last 4 weeks. I am not too concerned as to how long this is going to take (I’m patient) I just want to know if I am on the right track. I originally used a Aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit, but was advised to try a different kit (the readings were really really low)(looking at the batch numbers on the chemicals they looked to be about 2 yrs old) so I bought a Red Sea kit which has been giving me the above readings.

I guess what I am most concerned about is that my ammonia levels have never gotten that high (IMO) and I know that ammonia is the catalyst to get the bio filtration going. Is .25 - .50 PPM ammonia a normal range when cycling, cause it has never been higher than this.

Anyway, I have considered getting a few more chromies to increase the bio load, or even getting a few pieces of uncured live rock, but I am not sure, maybe things are going swimmingly and I just need to wait a few more weeks. Any advice is greatly appreciated, and I apologize if I am coming across like a huge newb. Have a great day and thanks again.

Davidson

 

[FroggyFox]

Um...I would suggest not getting anymore fish. Have you read through the threads that are stickied on top of this saltwater forum? They are chock full of good info.

Personally if it were me I'd get some live rock in there asap and rethink your filtration. Those nitrates are WAY too high...esp when you're striving for 0ppm in ammonia/nitrite and nitrate! If you went ahead and took your current fish back to a store and started again with live rock and redo the filtration system...your tank would be ready for a cleanup crew after awhile and then ready for some fish awhile after that.

At any rate I'm still a relative salt newb so I'll let some others chime in with their reccomendations for you.

 

[OCCFan023]

live rock will make your life a whole heck of alot easier. Keep the fish in the tank and get some cured live rock and a couple of powerheads (is the only flow in the tank from the filter?)

As far as if your heading in the right direction I'd have to say with no lr you are heading in the right direction (as shown by the high nitrates and noticable ammonia) Not only will the rock be the best filtration and shelter for your fish but it will be by far the most astheticly appealing as well.

 

[rohnds]

Make sure that the LR you place in the tank (since you already have fish in it) is properly cured. Or else, toxic elements produce druing the curing can simply kill your fish.
With an NO3 level of 50ppm(taking the conservative reading), your tank still haven't cycled. There are number of other ways to cycle SW tank without LR. But since you already have fishes, the best option is to buy some LRs to cycle the tank. In this way you avoid killing your existing fish.
If NO3 level is truely 50ppm, then I would strongly suggest doing water changes (frequent) to bring that down.

Rohn

 

[Davidson]

Hi all,

Thanks for the great replys. Ill be making the switch to live rock next week. as well as doing some water changes. I do have a LFS that has been really helpfull and who a few weeks ago was cureing a large batch of LR so ill be paying him a visit. I guess the only thing i need to know now is since ill be useing LR as my main bio filtration should i scrap my wet/dry set up? I HAVE READ on some of the above posts that they can be a big source of Nitrates. thanks again

Davidson

 

[OCCFan023]

I would take out media and use it as a source for extra water movement. It will also give you added water volume and depending on how big it is (how big is it?) you may be able to make a sump or something along those lines.

 

[Davidson]

Sorry i guess i didnt put that in my post, It is a CPR 500 wet dry, Dimensions are 16x8x12, with a cs 90 overflow 300gph, and a rio 1700 pump. I am not 100% sure of the exact amount of galoons of the sump. I had to go witha slim sump box due to size limitations of my stand.

 

[rohnds]

Wet/dry filter is an excellent filteration system provided you do regular maintenance ... i.e. cleaning the media on regular basis.

Rohn

 

[wayne]

OK, I'm seeing some misunderstandings over how bacteria and filter kit work.

You have basically a blown up freshwater style filtration system. You are going to take ammonia from the fish, and process it to nitrite, then to nitrate. Wetdrys are very, very good at this, but you have no filtration in your system to remove nitrate, so to get that down you have to water changes. Now in themselves, till theyy get to silly levels (much higher than 50) nitrates are not toxic, but you will eventually get algae outbreaks from hell. As it stands, the only way to get your nitrates down is to do water changes

I do not know why you keep testing for ammonia at this point, you shouldn't. You have enough filtration to do that. Have you ever used ammolock in the tank.

If I was you, and looking at what you've done, I think that LR is the way to go. At the same time keep the cannister and the wetdry running. After a couple more weeks take the media out of the cannister, and use it to provide water movement, and maybe keep carbon or phosphate remove in there.

The wetdry is trickier. Can you take the media out, and maybe turn it into a sump? As your tank is setup to go to a sump/wetdry it really would be a great idea to do that.

 

[Davidson]

Hello again,

Just wanted to answer a few questions:

Have you ever used ammolock in the tank.

No I have not, I have been waiting for the tank to cycle naturally and bring the ammonia down.

Can you take the media out, and maybe turn it into a sump
Yes i can take out the media, but until i get live rock what advantage is there to doing this?

After thinking about what I have read, I am planning on doing daily water changes (about 5 gallons at a time) until the nitrates drop. My LFS is closed Mondays so I am going to go talk to him tomorrow and price out about 30 lbs of cured LR and begin trying to figure out how I am going to transport it. Lucky for me I got some over time and a tip at my gig this weekend ( I dj weddings) so ill be able to buy all my rock at once.

Anyway thanks again for the help, believe it or not I have read "The New Aquarium" and read a lot of things on the internet. I wasn't quite sold on using live rock, and have been told by numerous people, and read numerous threads that if I was only doing a fish only tank then a wet/dry filter and a protein skimmer would be plenty of bio filtration. Live and learn I guess. I am looking forward to having this up and running though, as the tank is in my office and I have no windows, so this is my only eye candy throughout the day.

Davidson

 

[wayne]

Have you ever used ammolock in the tank.

No I have not, I have been waiting for the tank to cycle naturally and bring the ammonia down.<<I ask as ammolock can cause false positives on ammonai tests. Stick in a bit of live rock to get those bacteria going>>

Can you take the media out, and maybe turn it into a sump
Yes i can take out the media, but until i get live rock what advantage is there to doing this? <<Not much. You can wait till you have the LR, and pull it out bit by bit, but I would want to get it donw quickly so I could reuse the wd as a sump>>

After thinking about what I have read, I am planning on doing daily water changes (about 5 gallons at a time) until the nitrates drop<<You'll be wainting a million years for this, law of diminishing returns. 5% today, 5 % tomorrow ....... you'll be doing this for weeks to make any kind of real difference. No livestock in the tank - why not do 75% or more?>>. My LFS is closed Mondays so I am going to go talk to him tomorrow and price out about 30 lbs of cured LR and begin trying to figure out how I am going to transport it.<<Buckets. Or wrap it in towels, but it in a big plastic bag and drive like crazy! If it's less than a 30 minute drive you can drive more slowly>> Lucky for me I got some over time and a tip at my gig this weekend ( I dj weddings) so ill be able to buy all my rock at once.

Anyway thanks again for the help, believe it or not I have read "The New Aquarium" and read a lot of things on the internet. I wasn't quite sold on using live rock, and have been told by numerous people, and read numerous threads that if I was only doing a fish only tank then a wet/dry filter and a protein skimmer would be plenty of bio filtration.<<Only in America..... these sorts of setups went out of fashiona few years ago as they are a p.i.t.a. in the medium/long term, unless you cans start to grow macroalgae in a hurry to chew up all the nitrates they inevitably produce>> Live and learn I guess. <<That's true.... we all still are >>I am looking forward to having this up and running though, as the tank is in my office and I have no windows, so this is my only eye candy throughout the day.