Daphnia/snails

paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#1
About a month ago, I came across some daphnia in some pondwater I had, and I put in a couple during feeding time, but nothing even tried to eat them. I assumed that they would get eaten eventually, but I was wrong. I looked in the gravel the other day and there are a whole bunch of daphnia that are colonizing and reproducing. I also noticed some snails that have what looks like a single clam shell for their shells (forgot what they are called) that are also repruducing. Are any of these harmful to my fish, shrimp, or nerate snail? How would I get rid of them without hurting my livestock? PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#2
hello; I don't know what the snails are from the description. You might do a search for freshwater snails( trumpet, ramshorn are two common to aquaria) I sort of gathered that you think the snails were introduced with the daphnia. It is possible. Snails can also be introduced with live plants and stuff purchased from fish stores. When gathering things from ponds you can pick up extras, such as parasites. (while it is very unlikely in your case, there are some human parasites that spend a protion of their life cycle in snails. I do not think this occurs in the U.S. Of course I do not know where you live. Could be anywhere on the globe.)
I have kept a quarantine tank for many years now. I keep anything new it for an extended period. (some on this forum suggest a minimum of 4 weeks and that makes sense to me.)
The daphnia are also called water fleas and I have collected them as fish food. If you read some of the betta posts you will find that they are not always easy to feed. I find much truth in these posts and it mirrors my own experience. One additional thought is that bettas do not always understand what is food right away. I used to keep wingless fruit flies for surface feeders and my bettas might ignore them for some time. Once they understood that they were food, they sought them out. The betta may catch on that food is swimming around. I have tried to culture daphnia with no success. I doubt that they will cause any problem. You have a desireable live food it would appear.
If the snails turn out to be the type common to aquaria, then they will be ok as well.
About what you should do. It may be that that you are ok. If you have introduced something bad, it will show up eventually and you can post a particular description of the problem. If you have other tanks, it may be best to not use any material or equipment from this tank untill you are sure.
I prefer to have snails in a tank. I have the trumpet snails and red rams horn snails in all my tanks. They do eat algae and any uneaten bits of food. If the snail population gets too large, I keep a set of needle nosed plires handy. I pluck them out, crush them with the plires and feed them to the fish.
 

paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#5
hello; I don't know what the snails are from the description. You might do a search for freshwater snails( trumpet, ramshorn are two common to aquaria) I sort of gathered that you think the snails were introduced with the daphnia. It is possible. Snails can also be introduced with live plants and stuff purchased from fish stores. When gathering things from ponds you can pick up extras, such as parasites. (while it is very unlikely in your case, there are some human parasites that spend a protion of their life cycle in snails. I do not think this occurs in the U.S. Of course I do not know where you live. Could be anywhere on the globe.)
I have kept a quarantine tank for many years now. I keep anything new it for an extended period. (some on this forum suggest a minimum of 4 weeks and that makes sense to me.)
The daphnia are also called water fleas and I have collected them as fish food. If you read some of the betta posts you will find that they are not always easy to feed. I find much truth in these posts and it mirrors my own experience. One additional thought is that bettas do not always understand what is food right away. I used to keep wingless fruit flies for surface feeders and my bettas might ignore them for some time. Once they understood that they were food, they sought them out. The betta may catch on that food is swimming around. I have tried to culture daphnia with no success. I doubt that they will cause any problem. You have a desireable live food it would appear.
If the snails turn out to be the type common to aquaria, then they will be ok as well.
About what you should do. It may be that that you are ok. If you have introduced something bad, it will show up eventually and you can post a particular description of the problem. If you have other tanks, it may be best to not use any material or equipment from this tank untill you are sure.
I prefer to have snails in a tank. I have the trumpet snails and red rams horn snails in all my tanks. They do eat algae and any uneaten bits of food. If the snail population gets too large, I keep a set of needle nosed plires handy. I pluck them out, crush them with the plires and feed them to the fish.
I think I might want to give you a little background about how it all started. So I was out fishing on the Mississippi, and I kept realing in a bunch of valls, so I thought, cool, free plants! I took them home in a little water bottle and rinsed them off very well. I filled up a little 5 gallon plexyglass Critter Keeper with a screened top and put in some sand and a lamp overtop.

Over a period of 3 or 4 weeks, the plant started to take off. I did not notice any water insects besides one little limpet snail which I thought was pretty cool, so I let it stay in there. The water sat for about 2 more weeks before I noticed a few daphnia. This makes a total of about 6 weeks before any daphnia were noticed, and considering they have been enclosed in a healthy environment for all this time, I would assume they are parasite free. Just to be safe, I let them sit and breed for a few more weeks before I netted out 4 or 5 and tried to feed them to both of my tanks. This is when they were left to breed underneath the gravel and now are everywhere.

It is more noticeable in the fifteen gallon which houses 2 platys (female), Red Cherry Shrimp, 3 Endlers (2 female 1 male) and 2 peppered corys. As you can see in my signature, it is highly planted. I am more more worried about the daphnia devouring my plants, which is not to say I don't care about my livestock, I love them! But if limpets can do damage, I guess that will also add to my worries. I'm assuming the limpets were transfered while still eggs when I breifly introduces a mysterious najas grass looking plant that was also in the 5 gallon quarentine.

So even if they are not harmful, do you know how I would rid of them? Even if it involves removing my invertibrates for a while?

Thanks SOOOOOO much for your help, a am at ease knowing that nothing to damaging will happen right away. And yes, your a hero too skjl47! ;)
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#6
Hello; I have no experience with limpet snails. My rams horns will sometimes chew on my amazon sword leaves. I have found that to be when they get to be about the diameter of a nickle. I then move them to another tank with only floating palnts. Most of the time the snails are happy to graze on algae, left over food, dead plant bits and such. Snails have a rasp like hard mouth part called a radula that gets larger as they grow. Keep an eye on the plants for damage to living tissue and hope for the best. I do not know of a way to get rid of them. I think trumpit snails are live bearers. The types that lay eggs, ones I am familiar with, secrete a tough covering that protects the eggs from most everything. I have stored gravel from a tank in a bucket for weeks and found snails alive. It seems they only need some moisture. Even if you took down the tank and boiled the gravel, there will likely be eggs or small snails on the plants. Many folks that post on this forum are more comfortable using chemicals than I am and may have some suggestions.
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#7
Hello; Just did a brief search for limpet snails and daphnia. It confirms my thought that the daphnia are not likely to be a problem. They are largely filter feeders and suggested as dwarf frog and fish food.
The limpet search was somewhat reasuring, but not completly. One source stated that they feed on algae and detritus. The results had several pictures of limpet snails.
 

paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#9

paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#10
Hello; I have no experience with limpet snails. My rams horns will sometimes chew on my amazon sword leaves. I have found that to be when they get to be about the diameter of a nickle. I then move them to another tank with only floating palnts. Most of the time the snails are happy to graze on algae, left over food, dead plant bits and such. Snails have a rasp like hard mouth part called a radula that gets larger as they grow. Keep an eye on the plants for damage to living tissue and hope for the best. I do not know of a way to get rid of them. I think trumpit snails are live bearers. The types that lay eggs, ones I am familiar with, secrete a tough covering that protects the eggs from most everything. I have stored gravel from a tank in a bucket for weeks and found snails alive. It seems they only need some moisture. Even if you took down the tank and boiled the gravel, there will likely be eggs or small snails on the plants. Many folks that post on this forum are more comfortable using chemicals than I am and may have some suggestions.
I'm not very comfortable with chemicals either, but I guess I will use them if neccicary.

Hello; Just did a brief search for limpet snails and daphnia. It confirms my thought that the daphnia are not likely to be a problem. They are largely filter feeders and suggested as dwarf frog and fish food.
The limpet search was somewhat reasuring, but not completly. One source stated that they feed on algae and detritus. The results had several pictures of limpet snails.
Do you think it would help if I tried adding a dwarf frog or 2 to see if they willtry to eat them? I don't know if they will because they are sight feeders and the daphnia are very small to see. Any idea of a species of fish I could add for a set abount of time that would definately eat them?
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#11
Look up freshwater copepods. This might be what you have maybe. They're also somewhat harmless even though my snail was irritated by them. A small dose of copper will kill them if you want them gone.

WARNING: Anything with copper is hazardous to just about anything that doesn't have scales, so only use it as a last resort.
 

Oct 29, 2010
384
0
0
#12
They do look a lot like that only they are a lot smaller. Could they perhaps be daphnia young?
It is possible, but unlikely. I believe the young are free floating as well: miniature versions of the adults.

The time it takes for them to grow into adults is very short, so if they aren't floating around by now they likely aren't daphnia :/


Edit: I looked up freshwater copepods as well and I believe Aakaakaak may be right. They do look a bit like daphnia, but live in the substrate as adults.
 

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paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#13
Look up freshwater copepods. This might be what you have maybe. They're also somewhat harmless even though my snail was irritated by them. A small dose of copper will kill them if you want them gone.

WARNING: Anything with copper is hazardous to just about anything that doesn't have scales, so only use it as a last resort.
It is possible, but unlikely. I believe the young are free floating as well: miniature versions of the adults.

The time it takes for them to grow into adults is very short, so if they aren't floating around by now they likely aren't daphnia :/


Edit: I looked up freshwater copepods as well and I believe Aakaakaak may be right. They do look a bit like daphnia, but live in the substrate as adults.
I think you both might be right. I think what I have is the stage of copepod that has and umsegmented body, because it says their life cycle can take from a few weeks to a year.

I might remove all my shrimp and nerite snail and do a little copper to remove them, then add back in the shrimp and snail after a few days and water changes. Does this sound like a good plan?
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#14
Get a clown loach. HE will make light work of your snail issue. THEY LOVE SNAILS!

You can also add sliced zucchini at night and remove it along with the free loaders in the morning, repeat as needed. You may need to pick off the pet snails along with the nuisance ones. I would also suggest covering the intake on your filter as these guys have been known to get into filters and destroy them. I would use an old pair of pantyhose or netting of some kind with a rubber-band.
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#16
oh yeah the shrimp will be a snack for sure. I didn't see that. I was thinking the loach (I believe they come in a dwarf variety but don't quote me on that) would be moved to the larger tank once he was done with his job.

The veggie thing should work. Or snail away, or anything else with copper as long as he removes his plants and his scaleless friends.
 

nanu156

Large Fish
Mar 8, 2010
745
0
0
Detroit, Mi
#19
he adds a new carbon pad to his filter.

BTW before medicating with ANYTHING you remove the carbon from your filter.

This is one more reason I am a champion for the aquaclear system, the mechanical filter is not attached to the carbon like it is in the whisper/canister etc systems, it;s a sponge the carbon is a separate bag that you can chose to add or not to add with out any adverse affects.
 

paperdog9

Large Fish
Dec 11, 2009
633
0
0
Your Imagination
#20
I'm actually debating the removal of all my shrimp and corys and my nerite, because catching all of them would require setting a trap, which the copepods would most likely get into, so when I move them to my spare tank, I will move copepods as well, then in turn reintroducing them when I move the livestock back.

Like Aak said, clown loachs would prbably eat my precious shimps, and I have only a 30 gallon to move them to, so they are out of the question.

So I think I will try out the vegetable think mentioned by nanu. Perhaps I will create a trap with a water bottle that has holes small enough for only the copepods to enter, then empty it a few times per day. I don't think this will get rid of them completely, but it should at least do the job of reducing their numbers. Does this plan sound like it would work?