Do clown loaches really get big?

Feb 13, 2006
143
0
0
Massachusetts
#1
I've had 8 clown loaches now, only to have them die in a tank that has sustained 6 jumbo danios, 1 irridescent shark, 1 glowlight tetra, 3 corydoras, 2 African mystery snails and 2 otto cats... I have a hard time believing my tank is the problem..

Also, I've never seen big clown loaches, but everyone says they get so big. I'd really like some proof! And if they do get big, what does it take to get them there without dying?
 

Lotus

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
Aug 26, 2003
15,115
13
38
Southern California
home.earthlink.net
#2
Yes, they really do get big. You can go to http://forums.loaches.com/index.php to see some people's pictures of their large clowns. This thread has some pics of an 11.5" clown: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=675

You need to seriously rethink your stocking, as all of your tanks are overcrowded. In general, this can lead to lots of fish deaths/diseases. I would think this has led to the demise of the clowns you have bought.
 

Feb 13, 2006
143
0
0
Massachusetts
#7
Lotus said:
Yes, they really do get big. You can go to http://forums.loaches.com/index.php to see some people's pictures of their large clowns. This thread has some pics of an 11.5" clown: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=675

You need to seriously rethink your stocking, as all of your tanks are overcrowded. In general, this can lead to lots of fish deaths/diseases. I would think this has led to the demise of the clowns you have bought.
Can you help me to understand how my 39-gallon is ovestocked? If the inch-per-gallon rule holds true, I don't see how this is possible. Remember, the gourami is gone, so the biggest fish in there is about 2.5". All the other fish are very small with no hope of ever getting big, according to the profiles on this website.

Lotus, I find it interesting that you tell me my tank is overstocked and simultaneously send me to a site with pictures of a tank that you can hardly see the back of due to the fish population. Unless that's the ocean, I'd say that's a huge stocking problem!
She says it's 1000 liters, which I assume converts to about 200 gallons, and she has massive filtration. Well my 39-gallon has an Emperor 280 and a Penn-Plax 150. That's enough filtration for an 80-gallon tank, and my bio load isn't maxed out, so explain the overcrowding thing to me again.
My 30-gallon has kind of a crowded situation, but again, I'm using an Emperor 280 and an Aquatek 20-40, so enough filtration for about 95 gallons. And my 30 is the clearest, healthiest looking tank I've seen in a long time. The water doesn't even look like it's there because it's so clear, and I've had no fish loss in this tank.

It sucks that every time you ask about a problem, the only answer people can give is that your tanks are overcrowded. I was looking for something more along the lines of how big a clown loach has to be to have a good chance of survival, temperature requirements, etc. I can read the profiles, but if you go to three different profiles sites you'll get three different answers. One profiles site told me that my gourami was very sensitive to water conditions, and another site said the exact opposite and talked about what a hardy fish it was. I only ask because I figure some people have had good luck with them and can give some insight.

I might go for the overstocking answer if I had lost 1 danio out of 6, which I haven't, and they survived the trek in the back of the station wagon in a 5-gallon bucket when I bought the tank, or if I had lost one of the other fish that have been with me all along. There is something special about the clown loach that I'm not getting, but after seeing those hideous large ones, I'm glad I don't do well with those. Those aren't the least bit appealing when they aren't small and cute and colorful any longer
 

Last edited:

phOOey

Superstar Fish
Oct 31, 2003
1,741
1
38
35
Nottingham, UK
#8
First of all, dont post 3 times in a row, its spamming that we dont need, just go back and edit your last post.

As for your original question, yes clown loaches have the potential to grow to around 12 inches, but in most home aquariums, they will usually max out at around 6 inches. There is no size that they need to be to ensure their survival, its just as easy to keep a 1 inch loach alive, than it is a 6 inch loach.

Your overstocking problems might not be so obvious now, but in the future, unless you do some rearranging, all your tanks will be having problems. The only problem with your 39g is that you have a fish that has the potential to grow over 3 feet, your ID shark will eventually grow to an enormous size.



so i suggest finding him a new home now, unless you plan on getting a bigger tank.

its a similar problem with you other two tanks, plecos can get to around 12 inches, and are well known poo machines, and could really mess up you parameters, again you should think about re-homing these guys. Also the crayfish isnt such a good idea, once he gets big, he will eat all your other fish for sure.
 

Feb 13, 2006
143
0
0
Massachusetts
#9
I have seen the error of my ways with the plecos, and I have two otto cats now. I think they stay small, so I like them better. In addition, I've added African mystery snails for the algae problem that I bought the plecos for, so I'll be taking them to PetCo to give them back. One of my plecos has gotten to about 6".
So you're telling me that the irridescent shark that is about 1.5" right now will be too big for my 39g tank one day? That's amazing! Why the heck would a pet store sell a fish like that? So he's not like the clown loach that is stunted to 6" in a home aquarium? Any idea why some fish are and some fish aren't limited by the size of their environment?
 

Jul 6, 2004
240
0
0
36
Massachusetts
Visit site
#10
Yes, your ID shark will definately be far too large for your 39g, and probably not someday, but I'd guess in about a year or less.

This thread has a picture of a very large irridescent shark in an aquarium about half way down the page. Yours WILL get that large.

The whole idea of "a fish will grow to the size of its tank" is really horrible. If you stuff, for example, a fish that could grow to 3' long in a tank thats only about 2' long, the skeletal/muscular structure of the fish will stop growing eventually for lack of space, but the internal organs will continue to grow. This fish will suffer from extreme internal damage, and will live a short, unhealthy life. Is this something you would want to do to your fish?

I don't know why many clown loaches are reported to grow to only 6" or 8" in a home aquarium, but as you have seen from other posts, this isn't always the case. Perhaps smaller clown loaches breed more successfully in aquariums, leading to a sort of selective breeding. Or perhaps those people who say clown loaches only get to 6" just spoke too soon. :D
 

phOOey

Superstar Fish
Oct 31, 2003
1,741
1
38
35
Nottingham, UK
#11
Clown loaches aren't 'stunted' as such, i dont know why, but in most cases they generally dont get over 6 inches, it could be something to do with age, or diet or something like that. But anyway, i dont like to use the word stunted, because a fish that is stunted is usually deformed. clown loaches dont get deformed, they just stop growing.
 

Lotus

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
Aug 26, 2003
15,115
13
38
Southern California
home.earthlink.net
#12
Kyle, if you want to use the "inch per gallon rule," (which is more of a guideline, and it's also debatable if it works), you need to understand:

1. It only works for small fish (3" or less).
2. It is based on the adult size of the fish.

Your 30g tank has 60" of fish by this reckoning, and your 20g has 59" of fish.

Overstocking is bad. You talk about filtration, but say nothing of filter changes or your water parameters, which are a better indication of the health of your tank.

Unfortunately, most pet stores are in it for the money, and don't care whether the fish has long-term survival chances in your tank. Many fish are cute when they're an inch long, but not so cute when they're 12" or 18".
 

Feb 13, 2006
143
0
0
Massachusetts
#13
Lotus said:
Kyle, if you want to use the "inch per gallon rule," (which is more of a guideline, and it's also debatable if it works), you need to understand:

1. It only works for small fish (3" or less).
2. It is based on the adult size of the fish.

Your 30g tank has 60" of fish by this reckoning, and your 20g has 59" of fish.

Overstocking is bad. You talk about filtration, but say nothing of filter changes or your water parameters, which are a better indication of the health of your tank.

Unfortunately, most pet stores are in it for the money, and don't care whether the fish has long-term survival chances in your tank. Many fish are cute when they're an inch long, but not so cute when they're 12" or 18".

Duly noted, Lotus. As far as filter changes go, I usually use the sprayer in my kitchen sick to wash the debris off of the fiber media about once every two weeks or so, and I put new charcoal in the cartridges of all of the Emperor 280's.
As far as water changes go, I was changing 10-20% every month and keeping track of all of my maintenance with a program I found online called Reefcon 2000, but lately when I do water changes, my water is cloudy for about a week or so, and I don't enjoy my tanks. So lately I've been looking at the gravel for excessive food buildup and testing pH, nitrites and ammonia to determine water change time. If there is excessive debris on the bottom of the tank, I use the gravel vacuum and do the 20% water change. This usually results in my filter getting clogged due to all of the floating matter getting sucked up the strainer tube, and it's a real pain in the butt. My 30-gallon was horribly dirty when I got it, as far as under the gravel is concerned (looked like mud when the lady was draining it), but the water itself was beautifully clear and looked like the ocean. She told me that it's good to have this crap in the gravel because it nourishes the plants. In fact when I asked her about the gravel vacuum, she said that it was a bad idea because the plants will use the excess matter that settles in the rocks. It's hard to argue with her due to the quality and beauty of the tanks when I arrived at her house. Anybody can set up a new tank and have it be pretty, but hers were three years running and still beautifully clear, although the gravel essentially had mud under it.

I use stuff called, I think, Easy Balance, that is supposed to reduce the need for water changes.
 

Orion

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
Feb 10, 2003
5,803
3
38
Kentucky
www.thefishcave.net
#14
Normaly it's not a good idea to spray off your filter cart's with tap water because the chlorine in the water will kill off the good bacteria on it. However if you are using filters with bio-wheels, and not cleaning the wheels then it shouldn't be a huge problem, but may explain some of the cloudy water.

From the sounds of it, your not doing anywhere near enough water changes on a tank like yours. Good chance your nitrates are way high. I would start testing, and begin doing 20-25% water changes a week untill you can get everything cleared up. I would not rely on any chemical product to reduce the need for water changes. At best I figure it probably just binds the nitrate into a different form that doesn't show up on the tests.
 

#15
wow people really get off topic lol

*crazysmil everyone has their own idea of what an overstocked tank is. For a beginner 1" per g is a guideline and yes only good for little fish... if you're more experienced test your water ALOT and do alot of water changes it should be fine ... if you're running into alot of problems ...then cut down the bioload. *SUPERSMIL
*laughingc *BOUNCINGS *BOUNCINGS *SUPERSMIL ok so now ON TOPIC! LOL
I was interested in clown loaches so I've read alot about them ... they live for up to 50yrs .... so they grow slow ... smaller ones 3" and under are very fragile .... harder to keep ... so if you're interested in them spend the extra $ to get bigger ones! ;) Now this is all from reading ... I hope it helps! *SUPERSMIL
Also if you belong to cichlid-forum.com check out my 2 cent on tanksize ... its a good thread about how people need to back off on the reaming of tanksize ... its good states both sides, good debate ... and a good laugh *laughingc
good luck,
kelly
 

FishLuvr

Large Fish
Jun 19, 2005
406
1
0
50
Pittsburgh, Pa
#17
KyleBradley said:
Duly noted, Lotus. As far as filter changes go, I usually use the sprayer in my kitchen sick to wash the debris off of the fiber media about once every two weeks or so, and I put new charcoal in the cartridges of all of the Emperor 280's.
As far as water changes go, I was changing 10-20% every month and keeping track of all of my maintenance with a program I found online called Reefcon 2000, but lately when I do water changes, my water is cloudy for about a week or so, and I don't enjoy my tanks. So lately I've been looking at the gravel for excessive food buildup and testing pH, nitrites and ammonia to determine water change time. If there is excessive debris on the bottom of the tank, I use the gravel vacuum and do the 20% water change. This usually results in my filter getting clogged due to all of the floating matter getting sucked up the strainer tube, and it's a real pain in the butt. My 30-gallon was horribly dirty when I got it, as far as under the gravel is concerned (looked like mud when the lady was draining it), but the water itself was beautifully clear and looked like the ocean. She told me that it's good to have this crap in the gravel because it nourishes the plants. In fact when I asked her about the gravel vacuum, she said that it was a bad idea because the plants will use the excess matter that settles in the rocks. It's hard to argue with her due to the quality and beauty of the tanks when I arrived at her house. Anybody can set up a new tank and have it be pretty, but hers were three years running and still beautifully clear, although the gravel essentially had mud under it.

I use stuff called, I think, Easy Balance, that is supposed to reduce the need for water changes.
1. A moderately to heavily planted tank will use the poo and other debris as a fertilizer yes.

2. Never wash off any filter media in un de-chlorinated/de chloramined tap water, you will kill off the bacteria that you need and set your tank into a mini-cycle, (the bacteria bloom that your having aka your cloudiness.) only rinse half the media in used tank water and rotate sides every time.

3. Chemicals Suck. Most are a waster of money, and with a community tank, with all kinds of fish, they all have special sensitivities, specialy clown loaches

4. To keep your filter from pulling the debris in, i turn mine off when doing a water change/gravel vac. and any free floating debris i catch in a net before i turn the filter back on.

5. You said you tested nitrites and ammonia, what about NITRATES, in excess amounts this can be just as harmful as amonia or nitrites.

6. Charcoal is not needed and after time only makes problems for your tank. the only time you need charcoal is to REMOVE chemicals/medicines. Other than that it is useless well not useless it can remove odors but if left in long enough it will leech what it has pulled out right back in.

7. If you have that much floating matter when you do a gravel vac that your filter gets gunked up that quick then you are feeding too much. Cut back the amount of food you are feeding. I even give my fish one day off a week without food.

8. YES! you do have fish that will outgrow that tank. and YES clowns do grow big, Pelcos do grow big, (depending on what pleco you have, a common pleco for instance can grow to 2 feet in length), and YES! ID sharks in fact most sharks grow big as well. if you want to do some research go to truest sites, for catfish, i suggest www.planetcatfish.com a very good site.

hope this helps.

Ps: The people of this board, and every board, are just fish keepers like you, some who have had great success, some who have had moderate success. And MOST who have had some sort of disaster, we learn from our mistakes. They are not paid to help you with a problem. You came to them for questions. some of your post seem "rude" (ie: the one to lotus) and imo was uncalled for.

Oh and i forgot, in your one post you asked something like why you hadn't had any problems with your danios, or goramis, just so you know Danios are extremely hardly, as are gouramis, Danios, are generally used to Cycle aquariums in a fish-cycle.
 

Last edited: