doing my research

[forrestcook]

Okay - I'm somewhat new to this fish thing.

I had an aquarium a while back (15 or so years), but I didn't take very good care of it. Now I'm trying to do things the right way - so I'm reading lots. I've got a few questions for all of you.

The local petsmart has a startup kit with a 29 gallon tank and some extras for $104, and my local craigslist has used tanks around 55 gal for roughly $150. For a beginner (we'll just call me that), I've read that larger water amounts are easier to deal with as mistakes are more diluted due to the larger volume.apart from that, would you say that a 55 is noticeably more enjoyable than a 29? I know i'd be able to have more fish in a larger tank (I've been told one inch of fish per gallon of water), but the space and price difference (and new vs used) makes me pause.

Next - I've read about some easy to maintain starter fish (not looking for hardy for the purpose of cycling, as I plan on fish-less cycling my tank) andthose common ones are all well and good - but what I would really -LOVE- to have is some kind of cool little crab or lobster friend in there. I hear they help out with cleaning, and they just look darn cool. Is salt water the only domain that these are available in? Or can I find cool crustaceans for fresh water?

Also, is there a resource that says what fish are cleaner or mossier than others? I was raring to go get a pleco (love the way they look) but then I heard they're very messy and increase the amount of work to do with the water... I'm obviously not opposed to working on the tank, but I want it to be manageable.

I'm looking forward to this as a stress relief for me after work... I'm a cop and need to wind down before I can sleep at night. (running on 3 hours after shift right now... 3am should be sleepy time!)

All your help is greatly appreciated and any links for starter products (good substrate or rocks) are also appreciated.

also - how much work does having a planted aquarium add? I'd prefer live plants for my fish, but I haven't found much in the way of info for that... haven't looked too hard yet, though.

 

[JWright]

Sounds like you're off to a great start.

I would go with the 55 for a couple of reasons. One, as you already mentioned, it will be more stable, and give you more flexibility with stocking. The second reason is that the "start kits" often come with junk for filters, heaters, etc. With the 55, you can then add the equipment you want.

I'm afraid I personally don't have a lot (read: "any") of experience with freshwater invertebrates, but they do exist, and are pretty easy to come by. Crayfish, snails, etc...

Don't rule out a pleco. There are lots of species available, some easier to take care of than others.

What I would do is draw up a "wish list" of fish you would like to keep, post it here, and get some feedback.

If you want a quick reference with pretty pictures, check out Freshwater Fish: Freshwater Tropical Fish Species for Tropical Fish Tanks

Don't pay a whole lot attention to the "quick stats", as they tend to be a bit off the mark.

~JW

 

[punkrockfish]

good to see you are doing the research, it will most definitely pay off in the end. You can get crawfish for a freshwater tank, but I've heard stories about them snacking on fish before. The problem with getting crabs is that they really aren't 100% aquatic, and need a place out of the water as well. They are also master escape artists. Snails are good at clean up, as are shrimp, and as you do more research you will find some fish that like to hang at the bottom of the tank that are good at getting food that sinks down. I'd go with the bigger tank as well, because when I started I went with a small tank, and you quickly realize how limited you are with what you can do.

In terms of planting the tank, it depends on what fish you decide to get, but it sounds like you a planted community tank is in your future. When I had a planted tank I actually became more obsessed with the plants than the fish. They do take some more work, but your fish will be much happier and your tank will look a whole lot nicer. There are people on here with a lot more experience in terms of CO2, lighting, and soils, so I will let them fill you in there.

 

[HMarcks]

Plants really can be alot of work, alot of prunning cause they grow so fast and making sure they have the right light and nutrients and all that. But I am a plant person and love maintianing mine. You are going to love the bigger tank. I got my tank used (from a family member) and it was a whole lot cheaper and alot better then what I probably would of ended up buying from the pet store. Good uck witht he new tank.

 

[forrestcook]

The wish list cometh....

My wife has et to look through that web site that was linked, but I was looking through it tonight and last night for a bit.

I know that we both really like angel fish, so I'm basing this list off of the compatibility chart found here: Freshwater & Brackish Compatibility Chart

I'd like to do several angel fish... 3-6, I'm thinking. I don't know how they are at schooling or anything, but the site says they live with other angel fish just fine. I'd be getting assorted kinds, as I want to have some variety to the fish.

I want a pleco or two... I'm open to what kind, but I am partial to spots.

I dig swordtails as well, so I'd like to have some of them in the mix.

Some schooling community fish, tetras or platys (I -really- like the way topsail platys look.) as far as a number, however many a small school should have.

fill the gaps with maybe some cory cats and/or hatchets...

As you can tell - I'm spread pretty far here... my problem is that I don't know how many of these different species I'll need to make each group feel comfortable... I also don't want to overcrowd. Another branch to this stream of thought is this... I'm new to this, so my excitement may be pushing me to have lots of different things, which then ruins any sort of 'theme' that my tank might have. Do tanks look better with a specific theme or with a splash of variety is what I'm pondering now.

I know angelfish need room to swim, so I'm planning for that... going to leave some nice open space for them. I also saw a picture of a tank on here with PVC pipe buried in the gravel... so cool. I wan't to do that too (stealing your idea!) so would any of these fish enjoy that? The angels will eventually get too tall to get through them, I'm thinking.

I want to have a black/dark substrate with some natural looking caves/rock formations... still wondering about live plants vs. fake plants (do they make real looking live plants? does the addition of live plants reduce or increase maintenance?)

On the ethics side of things... should I be requesting all one sex of these fish? Do the species I listed spawn like aquatic rabbits, or would the be pretty celibate if I had mixed sexes? If they do produce fry, is it a terrible thing of me to look the other way as the bigger fish eat them? I mean, on one side, it happens in nature. on the other side of it - nature doesn't confine them in close quarters with bigger fish.

Still have lots of questions waiting to be formed in m head, I'm sure... I'll start with these!

 

[MissFishy]

Well, this really depends on what size tank you end up getting. 3-6 angels for a 29 gallon is obviously not going to work, but in a 55 you may be ok. Angels are usually fine when small, but when they form breeding pairs, they will get very aggressive and sometimes kill off any other fish in the tank. Platy/Swordtails do breed like rabbits. However, if you have the angels in there they should be able to keep the population down, but expect to end up with some more fish if you keep large numbers of livebearers in your tank.

Generally, a large school of one particular type of schooling fish is the way to go. Pick one you like and make a large school (in a large tank obviously). A hodge podge of random fish never looks very good on the whole. I would suggest some type of tetra as your main "school" in the tank. Take a look at all the different types, and definitely don't be afraid to NOT get the common neons/cardinal tetras. Take a look at bloodfin tetras (white with red fins, they look really great in darker tanks), Pristella Tetras, or even danios.

 

[forrestcook]

forgive me if I missed it in a sticky, but what's a live bearer? I had assumed that all fish did the egg/cloud of love to make new fish. are live bearers pregnant fish? are angels live bearers? maybe i missed that part on their descriptions...

And if my angels pair up, they'll fight off even the other angels?

 

[HMarcks]

I totally agree with MissFishy's "hodge podge" comment. As you can see from my signiture thats exactly what I have in my tank. Yeah its interesting when people come over and see all the different kinds of fish, but on a whole it just looks unorganized. It is my first tank and my only plan was I want to get things I can't kill, not the most thought out of plans. If I were in your spot I would have the angels as the main focus of the tank than have your nice big school to add a splash of color then pick out a nice bottom feeder or two to add something to the lower section of the tank.

 

[JWright]

Live-bearing aquarium fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fish have lots of methods of making more fish... Livebearers, Egglayers, Mouthbrooders, etc...

 

[forrestcook]

a few changes have surfaced. space and money constraints are putting me in the realm of a 29 gallon. Is this too small to comfortably house angelfish? the pet store guy said that they would just not grow as large and would be fine. He said 7 angelfish would be a good number, which I think is a bit high.

on aside note.... mouth brooder? eeeeeewwwwwwww...

 

[JWright]

7 is _extremely_ high. You could get away with a mated pair, if you're lucky enough to get one. You'd be better off going with a single one though in a 29.

Have you looked at gouramis? There are lots of gouramis that would be quite happy in a 29, and would make a nice centerpiece fish.

~JW

 

[MissFishy]

I'm going to say do NOT take any advice from your local fish store if that's the kind of advice they're handing out. 7 angelfish would be too much for probably even a 55gallon! Remember that fish store employees often don't know much about what they're selling and may even make commission on how much they can sell you. It's far better to take some advice from neutral folks, like those here at myfishtank!

My suggestion would be to pick out perhaps 1 smaller angelfish or a gourami for the centerpiece fish, then fill it in with a large school of something and perhaps some bottomfeeders such as your pleco. Remember, however, that if your tank does not have algae in it(most new tanks don't), you will have to supplement the pleco's food with algae tablets, otherwise it will starve to death.

 

[forrestcook]

yeah - i took his suggestion with a grain of salt. Now - most of the stores in town hav smaller angels in stock, if I get a female and a male, will they mate eventually out of necessity? or is there an actual attraction that has to be built?

Reason I ask is because I would hate for the angelfish to be mopey and sad because it was the only one in there... If that doesn't happen and they're fine by themselves, then I'm fine with that as well. I just want to do right by them and current space/budget isnt allowing a larger tank.

 

[HMarcks]

Crazy LFS. My 50gal seemed croweded w/ angel fish when I only had 4 (two being a breeding pair and territorial). I can't imagine 7 in a smaller tank. Good job not believeing him right away. *thumbsups

 

[JWright]

I would just go with a single Angelfish (actually, I'd personally go with a Pearl Gourami), with a dozen or so tetras of some kind (I'm partial to Cardinals), and maybe 3-4 Cories...

~JW

 

[forrestcook]

Okay - here's my set in sand (not stone until i buy them, after all) list:

29 gallon aquarium

start out with 6 small angels from a local breeder.... as soon as a pair developes, he'll buy the other 4 back. (he said they pair off rather quickly, before they get too big)

12 or so tetras... i like the silver tipped ones.

1 bushy nose pleco

some driftwood, slate and black gravel... Not going planted for this one, maybe next tank.

 

[JWright]

Sounds like a good plan.

I'd fishless cycle the tank, then add all 6 angels by themselves and let them pair off. Once you get your pair, and return the other 4, add the other fish then (maybe in 2 batches).

~JW

 

[tom91970]

Welcome to MFT! It's good to see some more people from the fine world of criminal justice here. I spent several years as a correctional officer and for the past 9 have worked in the field of probation so I know what you mean by stress on the job...lol.

I'll agree with JWright with the pearl gourami; I have two in my 29g as the centerpiece.

Today I added two angels that I bought 21 days ago to my 30g tank. That tank has black substrate and a fake hollow log. It has one real plant and a few fake ones...sounds a lot like what you desribe. You can check it out in the link in my signature.

As for used tanks don't worry too much about it. You can find some really good deals. I paid $50 for my 30g and that included a very nice stand. All I had to do was go out and buy a heater....and substrate (actually, it came with substrate and over a dozen fish).

 

[forrestcook]

well - all your help and input has been wonderful. I took my wife own to the LFS today (I feel like a salty old fish vet using the LFS acronym...) and bought our 29 gallon today. They had a special where I got my 29 gallon, glass hinged top, light hood and wooden tank stand for 100 bucks. Plus I got a 30 dollar gift card towards fish (1 dollar for every gallon of tank)

So. I've got my tank and my eyes set on a heater and filter... problem is this. I took my wife over to the fish section and showed her the koi angelfish that they have (two beautiful 4 inch diameter angels). Then as we walked over to talk to the manager (great guy - low pressure and very in the know... not the one who said 7 angels. that was a different store) As we walked past the cichilds I suddenly noticed she was no longer following me. She was staring at the cichlids. With all the energy you've all put into helping me plan for angels, I feel bad saying it... but i dont she wants to get angels anymore.

I looked through liveaquaria.com and was unable to find a cichlid who thrives in anything less than 50 gallons of water... maybe gouramis are the way to go. they've got some of the color and activity of the cichlids, without the demand or space.


Ugh! now that I'm actually getting ready to start cycling and preparing for fish, it seems like my plans are not cooperating.

 

[MissFishy]

Angelfish are technically a type of cichlid. Cichlid tanks are a new realm altogether, and generally not good for beginners. Another "cichlid" like fish besides gouramis you could look at are the paradise fish. They come in several different color variations, including albino. However, they are "one to a tank" type of fish. So you couldn't go filling up your tank with all gouramis or all paradise fish.