dying fish

[cchase85]

So I have had these fish for 4 days, one is a guppy and the other is a swordtail, both male. I also have one other male guppy and 2 danios in the tank. Today the swordtail was lying on the bottom motionless, fins pinned against it's side, looking dead. Now it is motionless in a rock under the intake for the filter, looking dead. At one point he swam around, fins pinned to the side but occasionally would make all his fins come out really fast and jerk forward, do this a few times, now he is back in the corner.

Now one of the guppies is doing the same thing, and is in fact lying right next to the swordtail, motionless on the bottom. The other fish are all perfectly healthy.

No ammonia, pH of about 7.2...

Any ideas?

 

[Lotus]

Welcome to the site

How did you acclimate the fish? How long has the tank been set up?

Can you tell us your nitrite and nitrate readings? What size tank, and what fish (and numbers of fish) do you have in there?

 

[cchase85]

Thanks. Hopefully I won't have to be in this forum much

I put the bag with the fish in it in the tank for about 30-35 minutes to get them used to the temperature. At that point, the tank had been running for about 5 days. I used dechlorinated water to begin with.

I don't have nitrate or nitrite readings... are there kits available to do that kind of thing? In all my years of having fish it has never been an issue so I don't know much about that sort of thing.

It's a 5 gallon tank, there are 2 zebra danios, 2 male guppies, and the swordtail in there.

The weird thing is that this has been going on for 3 days now. At times he looks dead, and will for many many hours. As of my typing this, however, he is swimming around the tank looking for food looking completely normal. He has been doing this, too... then going back to the not moving state. He usually just looks completely dead, sometimes headfirst downward, other times upside down or at a weird angle, in the very back corner of the tank behind a rock, right under the intake for the filter. His breathing normally looks fine, his fins are fine, his scales are fine.

There is no real aggression in the tank. The danios chase each other around and occasionally they go after one of the guppies for a second, but no one does anything to the swordtail.

The one weird thing I noticed before this began, the morning before actually, was that his excrement was almost clear, which seemed a little weird to me. But I don't think this has to do with it really as all the other fish are fine and I have fed swordtails with the very same food in the past.

 

[Lotus]

It sounds like you have a couple of things going on. First, you have quite a lot of fish for that size tank, which could be causing poor water quality. It's certainly too many fish for a new tank, which will definitely cause ammonia and nitrite buildup.

You'll need to be doing water changes every few days to avoid "new tank syndrome."

You can read some of the stickies at the top of the Freshwater Beginner Forum for more information on cycling/new tank syndrome.

In addition, it sounds like your swordtail may have an internal parasite problem. Feeding food soaked with garlic may help with this.

 

[noncentric]

I put the bag with the fish in it in the tank for about 30-35 minutes to get them used to the temperature. At that point, the tank had been running for about 5 days. I used dechlorinated water to begin with.

Since you didn't mention it. Did you just equate the temperatures? Acclimation should also involve adding some tank water to the bag, waiting 10-15 minutes, then adding some more tank water to the bag, then waiting again. This lets the new fish adjust to the pH and other conditions of the water, as your tank's parameters may be different from the pet store's tanks.

I don't have nitrate or nitrite readings... are there kits available to do that kind of thing? In all my years of having fish it has never been an issue so I don't know much about that sort of thing.

There certainly is. http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19383;category_id=3111;pcid1=3233;pcid2=
This is the preferred product, as the paper test strip tests are not very accurate and are more expensive on a per-test basis. This is also available at most chain pet stores, but more expensive. If you have a PetSmart, then get them to price-match their online price.

After a tank is established (cycled and stable for a while), then you could test just once a week or so. But daily testing is good during cycling.

The weird thing is that this has been going on for 3 days now. At times he looks dead, and will for many many hours. As of my typing this, however, he is swimming around the tank looking for food looking completely normal. He has been doing this, too... then going back to the not moving state. He usually just looks completely dead, sometimes headfirst downward, other times upside down or at a weird angle, in the very back corner of the tank behind a rock, right under the intake for the filter. His breathing normally looks fine, his fins are fine, his scales are fine.

Here is a good site to help identify fish illnesses:
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html
There are also additional links at the bottom of that page.

Good luck!

 

[cchase85]

Thanks for all the information. I will have to get some nitrate/nitrite testing stuff so I can check that out.

When I put the fish in in the beginning, I not only added in tank water over the 30 minutes, I put them and their water into the tank when it was time to add them.

Is it really too many fish for the tank? I thought the rule of thumb was 1" of fish per gallon? I'm not exceeding that, and I have run this many fish of this size in this size tank in the past without ever having any ammonia buildup...?

I could definitely picture it being an internal parasite though, reading stuff online it seems like when there is an internal parasite they will occasionally go nuts and swim around erratically. It doesn't explain why he is perfectly normal at other times though, does it?

The fact is that after 4 days like this he is still alive and seems to have a normal appetite when eating. I can't figure it out. I really doubt it is a water quality issue because I just haven't had any problems with that ever in the past, but as I said I will run the tests and get back...

 

[noncentric]

When I put the fish in in the beginning, I not only added in tank water over the 30 minutes, I put them and their water into the tank when it was time to add them.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the water from the petstore should not be added to the tank. The fish should be netted from the bag and then added to the tank, or you could pour the bag over the net over a bucket and then add the fish from the net into the tank. The main idea is to keep the petstore's water out of your tank, as their water may have some nasties in it.

Is it really too many fish for the tank? I thought the rule of thumb was 1" of fish per gallon? I'm not exceeding that, and I have run this many fish of this size in this size tank in the past without ever having any ammonia buildup...?

It's not necessarily too many fish in total, but too many fish to be added at one time. You added the entire capacity of your tank at once, while it's usually better to add a few fish at a time. Someone with a 50-gal tank could add 5 fish at once without much effect, but in a 5-gal tank it's better to add 1-2 fish every 1-2 weeks to avoid large spikes in ammonia/nitrite as the tank tries to accomodate the increased bioload.

Have you read about "cycling"? It sounds like the tank was running for 5 days before you added the fish - is that correct? Just running the tank empty is not enough to 'cycle' the tank, and 5 days is not nearly long enough to 'cycle' a tank. Your fish may benefit from Bio-Spira, which is a product that will get the tank cycled within a couple days. This product isn't available at many petstores, so call ahead and ask.

EDIT: Adding a useful link - http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31669
Also, more info about cycling here and here.

I really doubt it is a water quality issue because I just haven't had any problems with that ever in the past, but as I said I will run the tests and get back...

Sounds good. The additional info will be helpful.

Good luck!

 

[cchase85]

Just as a follow-up he has been fine for the past day... can't figure it out. I will still run the tests and report back, I am curious what was wrong with him...