hi all i had a question i am considering making the switch to salt water and i was wondering about filtration.the setup i have now is a 40 gallon acrylic tank that is drilled for use with a trickle filter. my sump tank is a 20 gallon and the filter is typical trickle, water pours in from tank, hits the tray,and is trickled onto a prefilter pad then on the bio-balls.i also have an eheim ecco 2235 which i believe is rated for tanks much larger than mine.granted with the 20 gallon sump about half full i really have a 50 gallon.my question is this do i have to get a protein skimmer cause i really dont want to get one if i dont have to. also i dont plan on getting any live rock cause most of the fish i would like to get i believe will destroy it. i want to make this switch with the least amount of expense cause the fish i want are pricey and i am pretty sure that what i have now will work.if not let me know what you think.
filters for salt
- Thread starter jakano
- Start date
Well, to start with, you dont need to run the Ehiem Filter. You already have an adaquete trickle filter. The Canister Filter will be a big maintenance hassel and you don't need it. Please get a protein skimmer. You are probably thinking whats the point its not really a filter. Well, skimmers extract huge amounts of waste produced by the fish. When you smell the stuff coming out you will lived by these pieces of equiptment. If you are planning on Carinivorous fish you will NEED one. You have a sump just go out and by a 50 dollar skimmer. Ask any pro and they will steer you directly to one of these.
Sam Reef
_______________________
90 Gallon FOWLR Marine System
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
20 Gallon Freshwater planted
Sam Reef
_______________________
90 Gallon FOWLR Marine System
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
20 Gallon Freshwater planted
It will be an air pumped skimmmer. They work , and can work well but are typically high maintenance - clean once a week at least, possibly a new airstone every week. You will also need a high volume air pump that will also likely be 50+ dollars
Yes you do need a protein skimmer as they will remove a great deal of fish waster before it ever hits your filters.
I can't really recomment going with just a trickle and the eheim as they are both going to produce lots of nitrates very quickly, which is going to require you to go for mucho water changes, especially as you seem to want to go for I guess triggers, eels? Be aware that your tank is too small really for triggers and eels.
To be brutally honest your setup sounds like a setup from the 70's or 80's - it can work, but it will be high maintenance and unstable. I know the upfront expense of a live rock and skimmer system is high, but I remember systems like yours, and the main feature was that everything died unless you were very skilled.
Please ask more questions and research before you spend money
Yes you do need a protein skimmer as they will remove a great deal of fish waster before it ever hits your filters.
I can't really recomment going with just a trickle and the eheim as they are both going to produce lots of nitrates very quickly, which is going to require you to go for mucho water changes, especially as you seem to want to go for I guess triggers, eels? Be aware that your tank is too small really for triggers and eels.
To be brutally honest your setup sounds like a setup from the 70's or 80's - it can work, but it will be high maintenance and unstable. I know the upfront expense of a live rock and skimmer system is high, but I remember systems like yours, and the main feature was that everything died unless you were very skilled.
Please ask more questions and research before you spend money
so what would you recommend use the berlin system or jaubert.the live rock at my lfs is $9.99-14.99 a pound.could you imagine how much it would cost to fill my tank with enough live rock to ensure good bio- filtration.yes i could mail order the stuff but it is winter here right now and there is no one who can be home during the day to ensure that the rock gets unpacked and put in the tank in time. so i am trying to work around these obstacles and try something else. as far as the protein skimmer you are right everything i have read say use the protien skimmer so i will have to bite the bullet on that one and get it. as far as research that is exactly what i am doing on this forum in the first place. i have a multitude of books on the subject that i have read and am currently reading.
order online and get saturday delivery if you can.. otherwise drive to a different LFS cause around here in wisconsin its about 6.99/lb at LFS which is still cheaper then 9.99-14.99 also remember you can get some live rock now and then add more as you go/grow just make sure it is fully cured before putting it into the tank with fish already in!
first off let me start by saying,if you attitude is"bite the bullet"then thats what your fish are gonna do to.i know there a few folks that get by on low tech systems or a diy equipment,and while thats commendable,i don't think it's the way to go.with saltwater you get what you pay for.don't spend much,don't get much.i often wonder how lfs and petchains can sell sw kits with only a hob for filtration and a skimpy 40 watt bulb for lighting.as for filtration,i would be somewhere on the lines of a sump,live rock,live sand,skimmer,and a reefugium if the buget allows.sumps and reefugiums are high dollar items,but they are one of the few things that can be done diy at a very low cost.i see your not liking the cost of skimmers,look harder,or try mail order.200 dollars sounds high for a good venturi skimmer.i see cpr's bakpac 2 on sale for 100-130 dollars often online and in magazines.at the price of a good air pump and a skimmer you could spend the extra 30-50 bucks and get a venturi style instead.
yes you are right you get what you pay for. my lfs is just way over priced.some of their venturi skimmers go for $400.00.and your also right about the shipping i just found out you could do saturday shipping.you guys keep talking about my low tech system well what is better.what i mean is what do you have.
you'll hate this,i don't have a saltwater tank yet,i just keep rsearching for when i get mine(someday)if your lfs is charging numbers like that then there is no option but mail order.400 dollars is outrageous.i don't mean what i say to sound bad i just don't see the results with the older styles equipment like wayne said.jaubert systems work,but there are a lot of "if's and but's"with those systems.i like the live rock live sand setups best because it incorperates aspects of both the berlin,and the jaubert methods.with saltwater,the most important thing is water quality.thats why no one likes hob filters or wet-dry they have the tendancy to build up nitrate qiuck.that means more water changes.most people using liverock/sand&skimmer do about 15-30% waterchanges monthly whereas the other methods are weekly.
I would suggest getting as much live rock you can afford and use a cpr bak-pak. I love mine and have no problems with nitrates
I have a 55 with around 110 lbs of live rock a 4 inch sand bed and a cpr bak pak skimmer. Everything seems to work well.
If you order live rock over the net, you will have some die off of the life. You will have to wait longer than you would with store bought rock. But you save mucho dinero.
I have a 55 with around 110 lbs of live rock a 4 inch sand bed and a cpr bak pak skimmer. Everything seems to work well.
If you order live rock over the net, you will have some die off of the life. You will have to wait longer than you would with store bought rock. But you save mucho dinero.
You live in the US , therefore you have mail order. Get it that way. I didn't , because of my own reasons, including I want to see what I'm getting.
To go off at a tangent, what fish are you thinking of getting, If I read you right you looked to go invert unfriendly - triggers, eels, lions, angels? Well upfront I'm going to say a 40 gallon is a bit small for all these fish, especially if you're going to jam it with live rock. Having said that you do have a sump..... You'll still have to deal with nitrate build up though. The upside (!) is that these fish can be so hard on rock that in a smal tank there's no point getting premium rock with lots of macro live because it'll all get 'sampled', so you won't need 'premium quality rock'. I guess what I'm saying you either build your tank round your fish, or your fish round your tank, but if you're going to stick to the 40 your life will be easier long term with smaller fish i.m.h.o.
Things I thought of... you have a sump - use it. Put some cheap live rock in it... or keep live rock in tank, bioballs in sump and accept you'll need to do a bunch of water changes, or take bioballs out and put deep sand bed in 1/2 or all of sump and/or grow macroalgae. Use a skimmer for all options though..
What do you think - what seems easy to you?
To go off at a tangent, what fish are you thinking of getting, If I read you right you looked to go invert unfriendly - triggers, eels, lions, angels? Well upfront I'm going to say a 40 gallon is a bit small for all these fish, especially if you're going to jam it with live rock. Having said that you do have a sump..... You'll still have to deal with nitrate build up though. The upside (!) is that these fish can be so hard on rock that in a smal tank there's no point getting premium rock with lots of macro live because it'll all get 'sampled', so you won't need 'premium quality rock'. I guess what I'm saying you either build your tank round your fish, or your fish round your tank, but if you're going to stick to the 40 your life will be easier long term with smaller fish i.m.h.o.
Things I thought of... you have a sump - use it. Put some cheap live rock in it... or keep live rock in tank, bioballs in sump and accept you'll need to do a bunch of water changes, or take bioballs out and put deep sand bed in 1/2 or all of sump and/or grow macroalgae. Use a skimmer for all options though..
What do you think - what seems easy to you?
yeah i tyhink you are right about my tank being to small for triggers and eels and pretty everything i wanted to get.either i do a different tank or i use my 75 gallon that my snake is in for fish.from what ive read so far it looks like the live rock/live sand set up is the best.the books said most people dont use any other filters with this setup except protien skimmers.i have a stack of books here i need to read and get a better understanding of how the systems work and how i should setup my tank.i wont be setting up a tank anytime soon i need to do to much research yet.
Go to www.fosterandsmith.com, when your there go to the fish section. Find protein skimmers. They have Lee's Counter current skimmer there for 23.99. Then buy an air pump. I prefer the Tetra Tec Deep water DW18. I think they are selling this for 10.99. Thats only 35 dollars! However you will have to replace the air diffuser every month. That will cost about only like 2 bucks! This set-up is very functional, while it won't be as efficient as the 200 dollar skimmers, it works well. As for your plan of keeping eels and triggers, I think you could keep them in your tank. Smaller eels (under 3 feet) could live in this tank, as well as small triggers. Be prepered to be upgrading to at least a 125 gallon tank with triggerfish.
Sam Reef
__________________
90 Gallon FOWLR
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
20 Gallon Freshwater planted aquarium
Sam Reef
__________________
90 Gallon FOWLR
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
20 Gallon Freshwater planted aquarium
yes a snowflake eel is exactly what i want and a clown trigger or a picasso trigger.from what i read these two species of fish are compatible with each other.in fact as far as i can see there arent many other fish these two species can live with. i am definitely a fish person and not a reef person.although in the future that might change.and i like the odd ball fish.of course i cant get two triggers together in my tank cause they will kill each other.did you have any other fish in your tank with your eel.if so what kind were they.
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