first ich encounter... i think

[kickapebble]

Well I am pretty new to my new found passion. When I was a child, I had a gold fish in a bowl. Now I have an aquarium and an learning about all the parameters and problems, the hard way.
I brought home a male betta from my friends wedding. First fish I've had since I was a child. My wife and I named him Rizzle Fizzle, (red fish). We started him out in a hexagon shaped tank which holds about a gallon I think. Soon after, I decited that I wanted him to be in something bigger. So now he is in a 10 Gal. After buying everything I needed to set him up with a beautiful enviorment, I got two ramshorn snails to control the algae. The snail found eachother, then rubbed bellys all day. Now there are eggs everywhere! I went to the pet store and bought 2 yoyo loaches to control the snail population. Rizzle didn't seem to mind. I also figured that there would need to be so other critters in charge of clean up so I also got 6 ghost shrimp. Then I got another yoyo so there would be 3. ( I learned that the big one was so dominant that the little one would never come out.) Now that there are 3, they all are active. I also got 4 cardnal tetras to add color. All of my fish co-exhist without a problem. But I have noticed that the big yoyo will chase Rizzle around a lot, more of an interested chase rather than a aggressive one. I can't tell if he is nipping Rizz's fins or not.
I came home one day to find one of the tetras had died. I took a water sample to the pet store and found out that my nirtrite levels are spiking. This is when I learned about cycling. Well, I have since purchased a master test kit from API. But I have noticed that the newest yoyo's color has faded. (he looked healthy when I got him) and since his color changed he has also been rubbing against the substrate. I did my homework and figured that it was ich. It has since spread to my other fish and they are now showing the tiny white spots. I have began treatment with Coppersafe and removed my prized Rizzle to a seperate tank. (figures the cheapest fish out of all of em is my favorite aswell) I did this because I can change the water in the little tank frequently as to not get the ammonia spike. It also seemed like the yoyo's began to harass him more since the onset of ich. So my questions are, am I doing the rite thing? seperating my fish and all. I am still in the tail end of my cycle and as of yesterday the parameters are:
Temp: 76
pH: 7.2
NH3: 0.0 ppm
NO2: 1.0 ppm
NO3: 5.0 ppm
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

 

[MissFishy]

Ok, sounds like you are learning. Obviously, you really need to do a massive water change to get the nitrite level down to 0. Your fish will not survive with the levels like that for a length of time. Make sure you are using water conditioner to treat your water and a siphon/gravel vac to clean your substrate. (If you don't know about these, check the link in my signature for some explanations).

Second, your tank is infected with ich. This means that your betta probably has it as well, is he showing any symptoms? If not, I would suggest keeping him seperated and in his own tank provided that that tank has a heater and is filtered. Now, to cure it. You are currently using Coppersafe? If you had researched, you would have found it is not recommended for use with loaches. They are too sensitive to it. It is also not good for invertabrets like your shrimp and may kill them off. Do NOT add anymore and make sure to do a HUGE water change to get as much out of the water as possible. Then, I suggest you use the heat method to get rid of the ich. Slowly raise your tank temperature to around 84 and leave it there for at least 14 days. Make sure the tank has adequate water movement to keep the water oxygenated for the fish. You should see the ich start going away, but make sure to keep the water temp up since the ich has a life cycle where it is not visible on the fish.

Third, your 10 gallon is too small for all the fish you tried to cram in there. It is already too small for the loaches themselves. Neons are generally not a good fish to cycle with as they are massively inbred and can be very sensitive and weak fish. I would not suggest trying to get more. You need to get a larger tank for your loaches or return them to the store (after they're healthy! you'll usually get store credit). If your betta got along with the neons, you could try him again in the tank with perhaps some other community fish. But save that avenue for later and another post.

 

[Psittac]

It sounds like your on the right track seeing as you've got your mind in the right place, your looking out for your fish and doing everything possible and by far thats the most important thing. I know people who have facts coming out of both ends but they don't care enough about fish.

First of all you don't want to do a massive water change, believe it or not you are going to need nitrite present in your tank. I'm assuming your tank is 2-4 weeks old since your at your nitrite spike. The first phase was an ammonia spike where bacteria formed to turn that into nitrite, the second phase is where another type of bacteria forms to turn your nitrite into the safe nitrate. If you remove all nitrite at this point it's simply a temporary solution, this may be a good idea if any fish are weak and need a period to gain strength, however this nitrite spike will return as your bio load hasn't equalized to accomidate all of the ammonia being turned into nitrite. (keep in mind to large of a water change can hurt your cycle as well as your bio load, a tank full of clean water can't sustain a bio-load and will kill off bacteria)

Now onto the issue of dealing with the ich, your shrimps won't tolerate the ich medication, there are some out there for saltwater that are invertabrate safe though expensive, they may exist for freshwater as well. I haven't heard about loaches being sensetive to ich medication but I wouldn't be suprised. The method of raising temperature is to decrease the life cycle of the ich, to get it to speed up and get into it's vulnerable state where it's free swimming in the water where it can then be killed. The second part of the heat method is to add salt to the water which kills the ich in this state, how much salt I can't remember and if any of your fish are salt sensitive i'm unsure.

Your invertebrates are incapable of containing ich themselves as ich it's self is an invertabrate, however the water on them can carry ich I also believe it can attach to them (not overly sure on that one). But knowing this I'd imagine quarantining the invertebrates in higher temperature water will force the ich to go through it's life cycle and without a host I think it will die off. (don't forget ich can attach to decorations and plants as well)

And last is your stocking levels which aren't exactly correct, a 6 inch fish isn't a permenant resident in a 10g esp an active fish like a loach. If you've got an easy way to find new homes for fish this isn't a big deal but it's still always a good idea to only get fish which can be housed permenantly.

Your actualy alot better off then alot of beginers and you want to do everything correctly, keep at it and don't be discouraged.

 

[d3sc3n7]

I agree with these guys...your obviously trying to do some good for these fish. (even if you do have enough to populate my 55gl.) I've dealt with "ich" before, it's not fun...and it seems like it takes forever...but thats just cause you love your little fishys. "MissFishy" here is like a fountian of fish knowledge...heed her guidance (even if she is from michigan!)

So keep it up, pick up a bigger tank if you have the capacity to do so. I think I'm in love with my 55, I really do!

LOL oh yeah, welcome to the tank!!!