First SW tank

[midmichman80]

I am thinking of coming over to the saltwater side of fish keeping. I went to the lfs and my girlfriend and I awed adn oohed at all the fish and corals and got me really wanting to set up a nice little sw tank. I have a few different options for tank sizes, what would you all suggest for the best tank size for a beginner. I have a 20L, 40hex, or a 55g available to use. At this point the tank and my ambition are all I have ready for a sw setup, any and all suggestions are welcome. Ideas on filtration, lighting, substrate, etc is greatly appreciated. Let it be known that I am not made of money and cannot spend a great deal of money at one time, but am willing to put a decent amount into the tank to get the best setup.

Looking forward to a new experience and tank!!!

 

[1979camaro]

The 55 is going to be best in my opinion. Your best starting point would be to borrow/buy a couple books: New Marine Aquarium and Conscientious Marine Aquarist, read through them to get a good basic understanding of what you are getting in to, and then ask questions about what you don't understand.

 

[midmichman80]

Thanks for the book suggestions camaro, I will go to the library tomorrow and pick them up. I also visited your page, good stuff, but you need more pics. I am guessing the bigger the better on the tank. What is the biggest size tank I could have and not need a sump/fuge? If I start planning now, I might get it set up by halloween, it will be a long yet fun process.

 

[1979camaro]

You don't ever "need" a sump or fuge, though they can certainly both be very beneficial. A better question to ask yourself is "what do I want this tank to be?". Do you want fish only? Fish only with Inverts? A few easy corals? A full blown reef? All of this can play an important role in the equipment you need.

As for the website, I simply haven't had time to update it regularly as planned. I have a lot of different pictures floating around MFT in threads I have started. If you want to see them, search the saltwater forum for threads I have started. If you are just curious about equipment, I do at least have all of my equipment and my basic setup listed on the website.

 

[midmichman80]

I went to the library today and checked out a couple books. I found "Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies" and "The New Marine Aquarium". I am reading the latter now, just taking a break. Seams to be a good read thus far. While I try to finish the book, perhaps I could get some suggestions on a good price per pound of live rock. What do the folks that have gone through this already paid? Also, is it a good idea to buy water from lfs, or is it easy enough to mix at home? Thanks for input.

 

[Lorna]

Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies has a bit of outdated advice in it but generally it is a help. The New Marine Aquarium is an excellent resource.....

Live rock can range in price with fully cured premium live rock being the priciest. You should check out the Michigan Reefers forum as their sale forum is pretty active and someone on the forums is usually selling their rock or even craigslists and ebay....

welcome to a very fulfilling and fun hobby....

 

[strout]

One good piece of advice, read all the stickys in this forum.

 

[midmichman80]

Stickies are read, haven't opend saltwater for dummies yet and am half way through the other. I have been on michigan reefers, bought my 90g tank from that site. I have just seen prices ranging from $2/lb - $5/lb for cured liverock and wonder why the difference in prices. I guess the more expensive stuff is probably more porous like fiji rock. Thanks for all the help and keep the advice coming.

 

[zoalover34]

The prices are just what people want to get for their rock.. Probably no difference in the rock.. Good luck with your new tank what ever size you decide on!

 

[midmichman80]

Good read on "The New Marine Aquarium". Lots of good information. I am thinking my first purchase towards this is going to be the protein skimmer. Seems like without this, you can't start a sw tank. I am also going to try and make myself a sump, michiganreefers forum has a good "how to" on this subject. Without the main tank being drilled and no overflow on the tank, how would I get the water from the tank and into the sump?

I have also decided to use my empty 55g as main tank, a 10g sump and a 20g breeder qt. I was also thinking of using an algal scrubber to help the protein skimmer. I like the diy thread posted here. I think these are some good first steps to getting the tank ready. I am thinking once I have the sump and protein skimmer I will be ready for lr. Am I missing anything to get before I buy lr? I guess a master test kit will be needed as well. This may not take quite as long I first predicted, we'll just see how money treats me.

Too, I would like to setup a full reef with corals and the like, would it be best to use live sand instead of just a calcium carbonate base?

 

[strout]

Ill give you this piece of advice, I am going thru the LR buying stage, If you can't hold the LR in your hand and look at, DON"T buy it, unless you aren't picky. This maybe an inconvenience, as it will make acquiring your pieces of LR harder, but you will be happier in the long run. Granted I have a bad taste in my mouth on some LR I got, but thats the advice I would give myself. The LR I got is nice LR, nothing wrong with it at all, nice avarge pieces. But, the LFS guy where I ordered it, NEW, I was looking for two or three pieces of really nice, above avarge in size pieces of LR, I paid a premium price for this rock, what I got was a box of nice avarge pieces of LR. In my opinion, the LFS guy new what I wanted, should have talked to his supplier to see if he could deliver this, if not, don't send it. Anyway, thats my LR experience so far and I hope it might help you in some way.

 

[midmichman80]

I read your thread about it, at least he will exchange it for you when the new shipment comes in. I am also looking at lighting, is there a watt/gallon guideline that should be followed when I want to grow most/all corals eventually and would rather not upgrade later. I was thinking a hood with two cf bulbs one of which would be blue actinic? I plan on using my 55g tank for the main tank, so would that be enough to grow most corals or would I need metal halide? I didn't see much info in the stickies or my book that discuss lighting, maybe I missed it.

I am headed to lfs today to check out the lr they have and build a relationship with the owner. My manager at work knows the owner very well and seems that if you get on his good side he will treat ya right.

 

[Lorna]

there is no real wattage per gallon as it is very dependant and subjective. To maintain most stony corals such as sps, clams, anemones etc you will need intensive lighting as supplied with t5's or metal halide lighting. Most lps, leathers can be kept with high wattage power compacts if placed very high in the tank close to the lights. Small polyps such as zoanthids, mushrooms, xenia and some leathers will be okay under power compacts also.......but if your intent is to go with a full blown reef you should really get the best lighting you can possibly afford now so you don't waste your money upgrading later. They have some nice combo lights with metal halide and pcs and moon lights. They are expensive but worth it if you are not handy. With cf you won't be able to keep much and especially if one is actinic as they are for aesthetics only not for growth

 

[Lotus]

If you do decide to go for CFs, it would be better to get 4x55 watts. A double fixture would even limit the LPS/softies you can keep.

By the way Aquarium Corals by Borneman is an excellent resource for information on corals. I'd highly recommend it if you plan to keep corals.

 

[midmichman80]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like a t5 setup will be the best for my situation(most cost effective/good light). With that said, I would imagine needing 4x54 t5's, two 50/50 and two actinic?

Thanks for the book advice, I am not too fond of reading, but I seemed to make it through the first book, keeping my interest along the way. I will see if my library caries it.

Any other suggestions or hints are always welcome.

 

[Lorna]

The Concientious Marine Aquariust by Robert Fenner is a good resource also.

The lighting you mentioned should allow you to keep most corals. Better to spend it now and then you won't need to rebuy better lighting later.

I second the Borneman book it is an excellent coral reference.

 

[midmichman80]

I have found my lighting or at least the type of lighting I would like to use. I am looking for a 4x54 t5 ho setup. Many people suggest this as a good starting point, something that should grow me most corals, but will still have room to upgrade if necessary.

I thank you all for the help.

My next concern is a protein skimmer. I would like the skimmer to be in the sump and am not sure if a HOB type would work. Does anyone use counter current skimmers anymore? They seem to be a lot cheaper than the venturi style, but I figure they don't work quite as well as their counterparts.

Any/all suggestion, comments, concerns are greatly appreciated. Also, my tank isn't drilled, nor do I want to drill it. How would I get water from the main tank to the sump without drilling? Could an overflow system be placed on back of tank to flow into sump or would I pump the water into sump from main tank?

Those bakpaks look cool, with the wet/dry filter attached. A bit pricey for me though.

 

[1979camaro]

First, let me congratulate you on doing this the right way. We get a lot of people who rush in to things and totally screw it up by not doing research and not really understanding what is going on in their system. You, however, should have success due to your patience and diligent research. It is commendable.

You definitely can not pump water from above to below. It is impossible to match the pumps. What you will need is a Hang on the Back (HOB) Overflow box. Many people in your situation use them with no problems.

As for the skimmer, if you are going to run a sump (which it sounds like you are) you will definitely want an in-sump or in-line (you plumb it in to the system) skimmer. Counter-current skimmers are pretty well junk. Plan to spend several hundred dollars on a high quality skimmer (I really like Aqua-C's EV line, but there are a lot of options) and pump setup. If there is one area not to skimp, this would be it. The most important thing is to get a design for more than your tank's volume. For example, if you have a 90g plus a 30g sump get a skimmer designed for 200+ gallons as the volume they can handle are almost always over stated. For example, my 90g has a total volume of around 120gs with the sump and I am running this, even though the EV-120 was rated to handle the job: AquaC EV-180 Protein Skimmer w/ JG Fitting + Mag-Drive 7 Pump

 

[midmichman80]

Thank you camaro for the nice comments. After reading "The New Marine Aquarist" I grew a large respect for those who have a successful reef and want to make sure I do things right from the start, not only for the fishes sake but my pocketbook as well. I realize spending a little extra money for the best equipment for my setup initially will save me much more money in the long run.

I was thinking an overflow box plumbed into the sump, past lr, then through the macro, carbon, skimmer and back to tank? I imagine the water coming to sump shouldn't waterfall in, but instead have the come out under the water line?

what do you think of this skimmer: https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=91_128&products_id=490


Thanks to all for all the replies and help!

happy reefing
Chip

 

[midmichman80]

To drill or not to drill? That is the question.