first-time cleaning woes

[Qrystal]

Wow, I'm sure looking forward to getting more proficient at cleaning the tank. I put fish in about five days ago, and decided to do the weekly water change early because I know I've been overfeeding. (I'm learning! That's my excuse!)

So I whipped out my trusty gravel vac, realized I threw away the instructions (doh) and so I was forced to try and remember the suggestions (and do a quick google search for tips). I shook the thing until some water started trickling through it, and debris started getting sucked up. I watched in fascination, until suddenly I heard water falling onto the floor... the siphon action had gone from trickle to gush, and the container I was draining into was full!

I think I panicked a bit, because somehow I started getting water everywhere... I pulled the hose end out of the drain container, and tried to aim it back into the tank without making too much of a mess -- yeah, right. Plus the end of the hose didn't want to stay in the tank, it would much rather flip around and get water all over me and the floor. I sheepishly pulled the sucking end out of the water, and the calamity calmed...

I got a bigger container to drain into, and sucked up more water and junk, but had to stop because I estimated I had taken 20% of the water out. There was still lots of bits of stuff I wanted to vac, so I'm going to have to do another cleaning this week I think.

I am also suspecting that I'll need to clean again so I can change more of the water.. I did some water tests after this experience, and I found that my nitrites had shot back up to 2.0 ppm!! Is it possible I wasn't really done cycling after all? Or is this a result of the stirring around of the gravel? I know I've got fairly deep gravel too (damn plastic plants made me do it, I swear!), and I'm hoping I can vac often enough that it doesn't become a problem, but is it possible it's a problem already?

Hellllllpppp!!!!!

 

[Lotus]

Yes, it takes a little practice A 5 gallon bucket usually works pretty well as a "waste" container.

Did you do a water test before you did the water change? A water change/gravel vacuum shouldn't affect your cycle or disturb the bacteria too much. It could be the excess food caused a nitrite spike. I guess you'll need to be more careful with feeding. A tank shouldn't really get too disgusting within a week unless there was a lot of uneaten food in there.

 

[homebunnyj]

Yeah, you do need to do another water change to get those nitrites down.
You did a fishless cycle, you're the one who had the white stringy stuff during the fishess cycle, right? Did nitrates ever show up at the end? Just curious.
(I think we've all gotten water all over ourselves and the carpet at one time or another, lol.)

 

[Qrystal]

Yeah Lotus, I probably should've done a test right before the cleaning too. But I tested yesterday, and the nitrites were zero. I guess they wouldn't have started going up until the food started to decay, and that could've started in the last 24 hours...

I think I'll do daily cleanings until I don't have debris coming up through the vac. Maybe I should even clamp the siphon hose a bit so I don't take out so much water so quickly.

Yes homebunny, I was the one with the stringy stuff... there's still some around, clinging to the plants and stuff, but I think I got most of it off the pseudo-driftwood. And no, I still haven't seen the nitrates rising... I had a few spikes at various parts in the cycle, measured 10 ppm a few times, but it always drops back down to 5 ppm, which is the same as what I measure right out of the tap. Still waiting to see evidence of algae or something that is processing the nitrates... heh!

 

[RockingCricket]

I have the same problem with the gravel vac I use (home made from a small water drinking bottle with the bottom end cut off, taped onto a hose at the spout). Just as soon as I've started vaccuuming, my bucket is full. I was going to suggest clamping the hose to reduce the flow but then I read you've had the same idea. Great minds. You might also/instead try tieing a knot in the hose itself. I use this technique to slow the flow of water when I drip acclimitise (sp?). Don't worry about the flailing water. We've all done it. ) I'd say that you need not vaccuum so often, just minimise the easily done overfeeding. Keep your chin up

 

[Qrystal]

I am going to have to vac a few more times to finish cleaning the mess I made (and tying a knot seems like a good idea, thanks RockingCricket) but then I will go for just weekly cleanings and be sure I don't overfeed.

Thanks for all the advice and support

Anyone know how long the fish will be okay with higher-than-zero nitrites? I'm thinking the neons might be the least hardy of my fish... but all 12 are still very active (after 2-3 days of high nitrite levels).

Another question, related to the vac'ing: will I need to take all my plants out each time I vac? Or can I do a half-assed vac every other time or something? (The plants are plastic, and the bases are extremely awkward/annoying. I am seriously considering making my own bases out of plastic bottle-ends, as described here: http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/plastic_plant_anchor.htm)

 

[homebunnyj]

As long as I had nitirites I'd do a daily partial change... really hard on some fish (nitrites, that is).
I vacuum half the tank one time and half the tank the next time. Depends on how messy your fish are, I guess. I move one or two ornaments each time. Moving everything out to vacuum can be likened to spring cleaning... totally not necessary every week!
I like the diy plant base... looks like it'd be easier to keep in the gravel with more surface area like that.

 

[RockingCricket]

I was under the impression that you're not supposed to vaccuum your whole gravel bed in one go anyway, else you risk removing more of your benefial bacteria buddies than your system can afford to safely lose.

 

[FroggyFox]

Totally depends on your filtration rockingcricket. If you have an undergravel filter you may choose not to vacuum the entire bottom every time...but any other kind of filtration most of your bacteria is in your filter anyway...so getting the gunk out of the bottom is more important. Generally vacuuming the gravel isn't going to harm your bacteria anyway...so I'm not sure of any huge reasons you wouldn't want to do the entire tank, with the exception of someone who only wants to do half because it takes more water than they want to change if they do more. Personally I do the whole bottom of all of my tanks and usually do 30-50% changes, I think having a clean tank is the most important thing to me.

 

[RockingCricket]

I used to run an undergravel filter in my old FW tank. I think that's where I got it from. Thanks for the clear up*thumbsups

 

[Qrystal]

I'm sure my bacteria are safe and snug in the ceramic rings in my canister, plus all over the plants, the walls, and even still hanging onto the gravel despite the vac'ing. They're tough. It's the fish I'm worried about.

I've been vac'ing until I've taken out 10-20% of the water almost every day (missed two days, not in a row) and I feel I shouldn't do much more water than that -- partly because I don't want to shock the system too much too often, and partly because I'm worried that carrying more than three buckets a day (3 back and 3 forth) might make me fed up with the whole process, or too sore to keep it up. As of yesterday, I'm focusing on doing "better cleaning" on smaller sections of the tank floor, rather than half-assed on the whole thing, because I want to be sure I pick up any and all food that I shouldn't have put in. I haven't been overfeeding anymore, I'm sure of it, feeding only a pinch and an algae tablet and a bottom-feeder tablet every other day -- the neons feast on them almost as much as the cories do! I think that means I'm being sparse enough with the food that they're hungry. The pleco knows the algae tablet is for him, and he scurries out directly for it, munches until something startles him or he wants to chase a cory away, and then he hides again.

Anyways, in addition to this, I decided yesterday that I should do my first filter cleaning, even though my Rena Filstar xP1 canister has been running with fish in it for only about 10 days now. I thought maybe the filter was doing such a good job of sucking up the excess food that perhaps it was rotting in there and "not helping" my nitrite problem. There was definitely quite a bit of gooey gunk in there, not that I have anything to compare it to, but since the colour of the gunk was brownish, my imagination told me it was probably mushed up food. So here's hoping the nitrites start dropping soon. It's been five days now since I first measured the 2.0 ppm, and it's holding steady -- at least, I hope it is. I don't *think* I've seen the 5.0 ppm colour, it's much darker and deeper a magenta than what I'm seeing. I think. *sigh* I'm afraid to get another brand's test kit and find out the situation is worse, but I'm sick of not seeing it get any better, so I might have to open some packages and look for ones with more gradations in the scale. But I did do a test today (24 hours after the filter cleaning) and I've seen no change in the levels (ammonia still zero, nitrites still 2.0, nitrates still 5.0 just like it comes out of my tap).

The other thing I did, today, was I added some more of Nutrafin's "Cycle", in case there's some hungry nitrite-eating bacteria in there (not that I have faith that there's anything but water in that bottle, but that's a whole different story).

And I'm starting to consider maybe getting some "Nitro-lock" to turn the nitrites into something less deadly, and hopefully I can clean up enough of the mess that by the time the chemical levels go down, or whatever -- I haven't yet researched, I have just seen this stuff mentioned in the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit instruction manual. And I'm worried that my fish can't respirate properly, or whatever. They're all still accounted for, swimming around friskily, but I worry that maybe I should take some extra precautions... ...anyone ever use a nitrite controlling product and can give any advice?

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I've used Nitra-zorb (I think that's the name, it's a little mesh packet of stuff that gets rid of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, and is rechargeable with aquarium salt), and it works well. As long as you don't leave it in there for over a day, it doesn't effect the cycle *that I've noticed*. If you leave it in there much longer, it might starve off the bacteria though. You can throw it in there for 6-8 hours or whatever and then check the nitrites afterwards.

 

[Qrystal]

LFS dude recommended a product called Prime, but said that it would not show a detectable reduction in nitrites, but that it does lock them in a harmless state (however that may be). I asked, how will I know when my nitrites are finally normal then? He said, when the fish stop dying. I said I haven't lost any fish yet, and he said that in that case, there's nothing to worry about.

I guess if I just keep doing what I'm doing, it will get better. I'm getting better at cleaning too, and I'm diligently feeding only every other day, so all should clear up soon enough I hope... I think after it settles down, I'm going to wait at least a week before adding one final beautifying touch to the tank -- neon dwarf gourami. Or two. I've got mixed opinions about which is better. But apparantly I have to wait awhile anyways, so I have time to research.. hehe

 

[Qrystal]

Update on my Nitrite situation

So anyways, I was starting to get worried when there was still no drop in nitrites a week after I cleaned the filter. My enthusiasm for daily or every-other-day cleanings was really starting to dwindle, as they didn't seem to be actually helping much. A week and a half later, still no change. What could possibly be wrong, I kept wondering? Aarrrggghhh! My mom suggested adding a dash of aquarium salt, to at least help ease the suffering of the fish (I read something that supported that: it helps with respiration, apparantly? And nitrites reduce their ability to breathe, so it would counteract that, I'm figuring.)

Anyways, I was sitting cross-legged on the floor in front of my tank one night, watching the fishies flitting around in a seemingly happy way, when something caught my eye and all but shouted "I'm the problem!" This something was a floating plant given to me by the nice fish store that sold me most of the fish, and was supposed to help keep them calm on the trip home and also provide some oxygen in the water. I was told, "You don't have to keep this in your tank, don't worry." But I liked it, it was pretty, so I kept it. Until this past Thursday, anyways.

Four days after removing the plant, my nitrites dropped down to 0.5 ppm, rather than the 2.0 that was holding steady for weeks!! I was so excited last night to see the pale purple colour, that I am actually looking forward to today's cleaning, because hey, maybe I can nudge it into the blue zone -- the coveted zero ppm!! And then maybe I can do just weekly cleanings!!!! And then maybe I can even put the final touch to my fish complement soon -- but not too soon, as I think I want to see steady nitrite levels for at least a week before I do that.

Whew. Anyways, thanks all for the advice and support. Cheers! *twirlysmi

 

[Toddlee]

I know how you feel. It took my 29Gal tank 60 days to cycle.
You need to wait untill ammonia and nitrite both are at 0 for a few days.
Have fun picking out the fish!!!

 

[Big Vine]

something caught my eye and all but shouted "I'm the problem!" This something was a floating plant given to me by the nice fish store that sold me most of the fish...

...Four days after removing the plant, my nitrites dropped down to 0.5 ppm, rather than the 2.0 that was holding steady for weeks!!

That's great that you seem to have identified the problem Qrystal, but what exactly was causing it? A floating plant? What made you think that a plant was the cause of your elevated nitrite levels?

I'd like to know just what kind of plant it was that could cause a 1.5 PPM drop in nitrites (is there even such a thing?).

Are you sure that the nitrites simply didn't just drop naturally over time? You did say that your diminished nitrite levels were measured 4 days after removing the plant, right? Couldn't it have simply been time that led to this decrease in nitrite levels?

Sorry to pester, but the notion that a floating plant could be causing elevated nitrite levels just doesn't add up (well, not to me anyway). Am I missing something here?

Either way, I'm glad that your water parameters seem to be getting under control.

Big Vine