fish dying

[dana307]

Please help. Fish in the 50 gall are dying. First one melini cory, next both id sharks, now my gold severum is gone. Water parameters check out perfectly. Ph 7 or 7.1. NO ammonia or nitrates detected. Have a fluval 304 and two bubble wands -- lots of aeration.

Bout two weeks ago my turtle died in this tank.
:-( No signs of ick. Fish lethargic and not that interested in eating. Any ideas besides tearing down the whole tank and starting over? I moved my leporinus fasciatus baby just in case. Green sev now looking puckish. Hanging in a cave around the bottom. This tank feels doomed. Please advice.........

 

[exodon]

We could ask you a million question and work thru some solutions, but if time is essential, then your best course is 100 water change, clean gravel, clean and replace filter media, and have appropriate cycling agents on hand for when you set up again. If there is a undetectable toxin, or pollutant in the water, from what ever cause, your fish are better off with a full change.
When you cycle the new water, pay close attention rto ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. If you keep them in check, your fish will survive this mishap.
As to why this happened, some fish places will do post mortums and necropsies, but you must bring the carcass to them with 24 hours, but this will tell you more about your mystery.

Exodon

 

[exodon]

Couple things to think about.

How long did the dead turtle remain in the tank?
Could kids / friends/ former lover put something in the tank?
Have you changed food?
Have you been medicating?
Have you mixed, combined, switched, or added new chemicals?
Is your heater working? Is it electricuting or shocking them?
Do you have Nitrates?
Do you use salt? Is there too much?
Is it perhaps the location?
Do the dead fish have anything on them? Fungus, parasites, infections?
What do they do before they die?
Are they eating? If not when did that change?
Did your city water or local supply change? Are you sure?


Food for thought....


I had a lady that bought fish from me. Every one died. I gave her more . Everyone died. We tested the water and restocked. Everyone died. I went thru her cleaning habits and all the properties of fish keeping. No problem She understands.
More fish. More dead.
We did this for three months.

Turns out that when she cleaned the tank, her deoderant was getting into the tank. Tall tank and short arms.

Mystery solved. many dead.

Exodon.



I don't usually usually plug my business on forums but if you are really stuck and need to talk to someone about your aquarium.... 250.741.0021 ... advice is still free....less the long distance charges of course.

 

[catfishmike]

exodon sumed it all up.two things i can think of you might want to check as well are oxygen levels and see if the heater is working proplerly.

 

[dana307]

Thank you all for the input.

How long did the dead turtle remain in the tank? 1/2 day. Did a 50% water change but I am wondering if whatever is wrong caused her death as well. She stopped eating as well.
Could kids / friends/ former lover put something in the tank? NO. No kids, fiance knows better. No children visitors, etc.
Have you changed food? No. flakes, and a variety of brine, bloodworms, occassional tubifex.
Have you been medicating? Did an Ick treatment in the OTHER tank about 6-8 weeks ago.
Have you mixed, combined, switched, or added new chemicals? No. Don't use chemicals. No changes in decorations, etc.
Is your heater working? Is it electricuting or shocking them? Will check but it's a new one as of three weeks ago and it seems to be workign just fine. The old one could have caused problems but this one seems to be working.
Do you have Nitrates? zero.
Do you use salt? Is there too much? Had added some salt but since have done significant water changes in case that was the problem. Can salt remain in the gravel and not be removed with a gravel vac and water change?
Is it perhaps the location? Hard to tell. It's on a wall away from direct sun and heater element. I was worried that I didn't have enough filtration and just added the fluval 304. Used half of the media from the existing fluval so that good bacteria would be in play.
Do the dead fish have anything on them? Fungus, parasites, infections? Can't see anything at all. But sometimes they rub up against stones or decorations.
What do they do before they die? Not eat, act lethargic. Hang out on the bottom of the tank. Then die.
Are they eating? If not when did that change? Not eating the last few days. Maybe the last 4-5 days.
Did your city water or local supply change? Are you sure? Not sure.

Will do a gravel cleaning - take it out and rinse with hot water today. Will that destroy my good bacteria though or should I just not worry about that now? Should I do 1/2 of the gravel? Will bring the next dead fish to the LFS for input. Will change the water significantly later on today. Keep giving input please. My greeen sev is going to be the next victim and that is going to be a BIG bummer. HOw does one check the oxygen level??????
THANKS.

 

[colesea]

I wouldn't put a turtle in with aquatic fish again. That would definatly remove one variable. Most aquatic turles are fish eaters to begin with, they get very large, and they do have special care requirements such as basking spots and UV bulbs. Fish and turtles, they just don't mix.

There are test kits on the market that do check oxygen levels, but I personally wouldn't trust their accracy. I perfer DO meters myself, but these pieces of equipment can be pricey. The best O2 check really is the behaivor of your fish, are they doing any surface sucking trying to get air? If they suck air from the surface, either you don't have enough dissoloved 02 in your water (usually due to too high temps and not enough surface aggitation), or they are being ammoinia/nitrite poisoned.

Honestly, even after you answered all those questions, I'm drawing a blank as to what could be the cause. A 50% water change could have very well disturbed the beneficial biological cycle of your tank. The best recommendation I can think of to make would be to move all the currently alive fish into a quaritine tank, and then break down and clean and restart the tank that was infected.
~~Colesea

 

[toodles]

Take a good close look at the fish....do any of them seem to have a goldish dusting to their bodies? Any of them breathing rapidly, but not gasping at the surface?
From your description of the fish flashing and lying on the bottom of the tank along with the not eating, I think your fish may have Oodinium. Very, very contagious and kills very quickly. A copper treatment is (usually) what's used to combat this, but be warned that copper will kill invertabrates like snails, and that copper will bond with objects in the tank and can be very difficult if not impossible to remove completely. (In other words, you may never be able to keep sensitive inverts in this tank again if you dose it, although I have heard of some people using a remover of some kind in their filter with mixed results).
Good luck....


I had to edit this because I *think* Coppersafe is a med that the copper doesn't bond with stuff in the tank.....

 

[RedTurquoise]

Test you nitrite level also! 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates may sound like a nitrite spike! Let us know!

 

[dana307]

Wow -- everyone very helpful. Lost ANOTHER fish in the last 7 hours. One of the Tbars. No gasping at the top for air, no visible gold dust look to them. But I believe the cause may have shown itself. Green sev has ick looking spots. Is it possible to have ick and not have any signs on the fish until it is too late? I have lost 2 sharks, one cory, one tbar and one sev now. But saw no signs of sand like particles on anyone until this afternoon. Now green sev looks like he has the measles with white spots all over him. Sound like ick to y'all? Medicine is in, pleco is moved, temp raised and will raise again in slow increments and carbon is out of the filter. Will do daily water changes before the medication is put in. Do you think any of the fish have a chance? I unfortunately do not have a quaratine tank but will double check garage and cellar areas. "God d**n it all." Help please. Advice listened to. Thanks guys. Water test still showing 0 nitrates, 0 ammonia ph about 7 maybe 7.1.

 

[RedTurquoise]

Did you test for nitr I tes?

 

[dana307]

Sigh. Did a 100% water change. Cleaned all the gravel and decorations. Put temp up, some salt and some ick medicine. Death tollll.... is now at 2 sharks, chalceus tetra, one cory, 2 tbar cichlids, gold sev and green sev is on its way out. I put my pretty leporinus fasciatus in the other tank and he/she looks happier than a clam in mud. I guess I will be left with the gold fish that will never, ever die (he was turtle food that didn't get eaten), two gold Gouramis I hope, a firemouth cichlid that is looking pretty good still and hopefully my buddy the green sev. Will carefully watch the water tests with that huge a change over the next few days. Anything else I should do? (Exodon -- thanks a lot for the verbal advise.) Darn I hate losing fish like that. Bad momma! So other advise and ideas for new tanks mates are requested - once things settle down of course. But there is whole lot of room in that 50gal. Will put leporinus back in there after an ick treatment in 2nd tank just to be careful -- sound like a good idea? Can't do it at the same time as pl*cos need a safe place to chill out while the other tank is being treated.

 

[exodon]

ride it out dana ,

things can only get better from here.
watch your cycling levels closely and do water changes as necessary to keep amoonia etc down.

good luck....nice talking to ya today.

exodon

 

[dana307]

Ride it out is good advice. I think I now need to go flush my cherished green severum. :-( But the complete water change was needed. Lots of dirt on the bottom from the old turtle days. So, I am left with 2 gouramis, a firemouth, and the bleeping goldfish who needs to go away -- although you have to admire his tenacity. Nice chatting with you too and I your advice was appreciated and reassuring.

 

[dana307]

Information on water tests appreciated.

Parameters are now:
ph 6.8 nitrites 0 ammonia 0 Kh 36 Gh 80.

 

[toodles]

Oodinium is I believe the main culprit with ich as a secondary infection. Very, very common for this to happen. (Oodinium weakens the fish so badly that the ich can just move in, that's why you haven't seen the ich before this). Unless you are using a medicine that says it treats Oodinium you are not treating the main cause......also, do not move fish around like that. You are only increasing your risk of spreading the disease. You should also be sterilizing or keeping your equipement separate. These parasites are easily spread from one tank to another by nets, gravel vacs, etc....


Oh and I didn't say the fish would be at the top gasping for air, I said were the fish breathing heavily (or faster) but still on the bottom of the tank.....

 

[dana307]

I will do some research on oodinium and go to the LFS for some advice. Have been treating for ick and the remaining fish look healthy. Why some were affected and other weren't I don't know. Thanks for the advice.