Flow Through Sump (Hi or Low)

[MatthewLaw]

Greetings All- I am preparing to setup a 10g sump for my 50g tank. Since my 50g is not drilled I will be using an overflow box.

My choice are down to the Eshopps 800 v. Eshopps 1000 (800 v. 900 gph respectively). For the 800 I would use a mag 7 return, and for the 1000 i would use a mag 9.5.

I will also be using a biwheel 350 and Aqua C REmora in the sump. Some have suggested that the flow from the eshopps 1000 and return mag 9.5 is too fast for this sump and will result in poor skimming. Are there any out there that are advocates for this higherly flow? Or Maybe switch the return on the 1000 to a mag 7? THanks for your help!

 

[Chris_A]

How much head pressure will there be on the pump?

Height?
#of 90's?
#of 45's?
any valves?
Pipe diameter?
#of outlets?
ect...

All of those will decrease the flow off of the pump. Plus keep in mind Mag Drives are rated for one pipe size larger than what the outlet is (at least all the ones I've used anyway ). So the Mag 7 with the 1/2" outlet will work best with 3/4" pipe. The Mag 9.5 with the 3/4" outlet should have 1" pipe.

Once you know the actual flow of the pump it makes it easier to determine if the flow is actually too fast for your sump.

Also, are you going to be installing baffels? Or just one large compartment (ie: the basic tank)?

Chris

 

[S.Reef]

All the information Chris gave is good...I would strongly suggest baffles especially for a small sump

 

[Chris_A]

LOL, see, on a sump that small I would not suggest baffels unless you have a VERY reliable Auto Top Off... Or have free time several times a day to top up evaporation.

A ten with that any decent amount of flow through it, especially with an overflow feeding it (large air water interface), evap's a lot of water. Using a baffle system to isolate the return pump is only going to make that smaller volume show it even more and run the risk of having the return suck in air. Then you're just trading the risk of the odd micro bubble for the risk of actively shooting air into the tank.

If you are concerned with Micro-bubbles getting into the return, run a filter sock on the drain line and skimmer. Even a sponge on the skimmer outlet will work. Just make sure to clean either of them regularly. You could also do an intake screen/manifold so that the draw isn't as great in any one place into the return.

All that said, there is nothing saying 100% evap will be an issue. It depends on water movement, ambiant air humidity, water temp, total system surface area, ect. BUT... it's easier to install baffels later on if you don't see a problem than it is to remove them if there is... Try it without, work out your evaporation rate based on how often you top up, then figure out what size your return compartment would be and work backwards from there to see how much the water would drop in that given amount of time. It's also handy to know what minimum depth your return will operate in without causing a "whirlpool" that sucks in air. For example, My QO 6000 needs at least 5" of water before that happens.

One more thing to keep in mind... adding baffels will increase your evap a bit. More surface movement right...

Chris

Just occured to me to work this out...
every inch of water in a standard 10 gallon is equal to 0.866 gal.
Lets be generous and say you could use 1/3rd of the tank length as a return compartment. And let's say half the height, which may not be a good idea depending on other factors. Soooo, 10x6x6.666 = 1.731 gal. What this means is if you have 0.866 gal of evap, you would lose 1" from a standard 10. But in that pump compartment you would lose *3"* with the same volume of evap.

 

[TRe]

without baffles youll have annoying micro bubbles but like was already mention after adding baffles to a sump that small youll be toping off every day or at least every other day! i say try to go bigger like 20g put in baffles and go with lower flow thru the sump.... only reason i see to go with higher flow is so the return is putting out more flow into the display but i say if you want more flow in the display go with better powerheads!

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for all your help!!

i am thinking of going to a 20g but unfortunately i am not sure if i can fit it in teh tank. the front essentially has 5 pieces of wood. three are fixed in place and provide support. the other two are on hinges. so i am not sure i could fit the 20g within the door.

initially i will probably skip the baffles and see how things work.

from the return pump, do you install something special in the aquarium that connects to the return hose (which is connected to the return pump)? or does the hose just hang out at the top of the aquarium?

thanks for all your help!!!

 

[Joe Fish]

If you get either of those mags 3/4" ID tubing will fit right over the threads. Just be sure to use a piple clamp. I don't trust the plastic ones so I use stainless. They still will rust so you have to keep an eye on them.

You would need something like this: Aquarium Plumbing: Directional U-Tube

You would want to add a Y fitting, maybe two, to disperse flow.

 

[Chris_A]

You would need something like this: Aquarium Plumbing: Directional U-Tube

This is really easy to make out of PVC fittings. Couple of 90deg elbows, a couple of thread x slip (or even a thread x slip elbow) and a thread x hose barb. Then you can attach loc-line to the tread x slip in the tank and you're good to go.

For the cost of it, I would use a hose barb on the pump outlet if you aren't going to hard plumb it.

Chris

 

[MatthewLaw]

sorry for the ignorance but what is a thread X slip and thread x hose barb?

thanks for all your help!!

 

[Chris_A]

They just describe the type of connections a (in this case) PVC fitting has. So a thread x slip is just that, one end has threads and the other has a bore that the pipe is pushed and "glued" into. It can apply to couplers, elbows, bushings, ect. Tee's will have another one (S x T x S for example) describing the extra connection.

Same thing for the other one it has either male of female threads on one end and a hose barb connection on the other.

If you ask for these at a hardware store it'll all make sense .

Chris

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for all your help!