Freshwater Ecosystems (General Chat)

[SLZM]

Hello Freshwater Fish Enthusiasts, since I couldn't really find a great thread for everyone (most threads seem like they revolve around a single question (and I didn't want to be rude and bust in with my own question)) so I made this thing. Ta-da! Mostly because I'm starting from scratch and have varied questions and it'd be nice to just talk about happenings and such.

So here's my question (feel free to post your own question or just a thought or whatever (that's the point)) : I'm beginning a new tank. Freshwater Community. It's rather large-ish, and I know the itinerary is (for me): Build a backdrop-i'm using a wooden frame and chicken wire and paper mache to make a rock backdrop and little roots. Then I'm fixing down stuff like driftwood and this deer antler I'm putting in as sort of a center-piece (I'm coating the thing in marine epoxy (or the stuff they use on aquarium decor after painting) to ensure the antler won't seep calcium and whatnot into the tank. That wouldn't be good) Then, rocks/substrate, water and plantlife. I'm going for a varied ecosystem. A small meadow of substrate amongst the tall vegetation, slowly blending into small gravel and a pasture of grasslike plants. (Downoi and the likes) then into thick rocks and massive plants, with a bottom layer of large leaved plants that lie low. (also, i'm gonna try floating plants (eep )) once the ecosystem starts rolling and I get a good idea of how to manipulate balances of ph, hardness and the likes, the fish will be added. Definite ones include a varied school of bright tetra, a nice snakeskin gourami and a couple pearl gourami. Maybe I'll add a molly or two and some killifish.

Basically, I'm looking for ideas on what would be cool, or what fish to add.
This would be a great thread to discuss pleco, inverts, and neater fish that wouldn't ordinarily be found in a nomal freshwater tank (but anything is open for discussion (freshwater though, it's in the title lmao))

I would love some small, managable plecostamus (preferably non driftwood/plant eaters/destroyers)
a couple inverts that wouldn't eat/be eaten or wreck plants
and maybe a couple cool fish that would work. It's so depressing to find an amazing fish/invert with all these great qualities (it's hardy, it's friendly, calm, has a personality) then find out one little thing that would make it a terrible addition. ex) Hammer Cobalt Lobsters are communtiy inverts that aren't too aggressive, well in the limits of ph and such that my other fish-to-be are in, it's a good size for the tank, and you only need one to make it happy. Also, it's a freakin blue lobster!

Buuuuuut, it rips plants up. There have been cases where ppl have said that they're fine, but I'm not taking any chances.

Anywho: talk, chat, share, enquire, and if you have any insight on the "problem" (more of a lack of ideas), please let me know.
You're not pressured to help, I can't stress this enough.

 

[SLZM]

Also, this can work as a blog of types for everyone to say, EX) Frank says "hey guys, I added a dragonfish to my tank of small, lethargic, rare, never before seen species of tetras, let's see how it goes"

and then another member EX) Paul says "That sounds like a great idea, Frank, you innovative man. Im going to try to breed a pufferfish and a stingray by mashing them together."

then of course, advice to the uninformed and desperate is always helpful. EX) Jim says "Guys, those are pretty terrble ideas. The dragonfish will eat your tetras. And everybody knows that you can only breed a puffer and a stingray by playing an innuendo filled song and turning off the lights"

BUUUUT getting along would be nice. None of this EX) Frank says "Dang you Jim, dang you to heck, my dragonfish and my beloved tetra will be fine and will sing Kumbaya around a metaphorical campfire, you sadistic monster." Well, I had meant that to sound angrier, but you get the idea. Flamewars suck.

Also, I welcome off-topicness as long as it is fleeting and kind of relevant. EX) Sam says, "......and that's why I'll never try a guppy-human relationship again. Anyways, I'm going to a soccer tournament, wish me luck." Jim says, "Good luck Sam. Now, I'm thinking of adding a small group of killifish to..." That's all good.

EX) Paul says, "OMG I just tried a new type of bacon, you have to try it!" That's just wierd

I'm basically going on about these random ideals because i want this to be a decent thread, not a "OH NO PLZ HELP", then two reply posts, boom, over. Would be nice to have a continuos general discussion.

Continuous*

 

[SLZM]

anyone notice that that if you go to inverts, then hit freshwater inverts, it leads you to plants?

 

[achase]

What is the exact size of your tank? Or what are the dimensions of the tank? The interpretation of "largest" can vary.

For community tanks I really like tetras because they come in such a wide variety of colors and shapes, plus they tend to get along well with everyone. I don't really like mollies but that is just me. I like Rams better than Gourami's. That is just some general input your tank size will help to further the discussion.

You will have to post pictures when you get the background and such done. It sounds very cool!

 

[MdngtRain]

sounds like fun... I want to try an ecosystem like that, but don't have anything big enough (or room for anything big enough). definately let us know how it goes and post plenty of pics (I LOVE pics!). I'm relatively new to this all, so I don't have too much to say on this topic, but I'll happily follow this thread.

 

[SLZM]

I definitely will post pics, but for now, its an empty tank with two neat pieces of driftwood we found and a deer antler. It's been empty for a while but we've (by we I usually mean me and my dad, usually I do these things myself but he used to have a sweet Oscar/cichlid/pleco tank (forever ago, I must've been younger than 10 or so) so he wants to get in on it) just decided to stop "Oh man, it's gonna rock", and actualy make progress.

Tetras have always been in my previous tanks, but those were really simple, i didn't pay much attention to pH and hardness and mineral amounts, but I really want good healthy fish this time around. Plants never really took to the tanks, it was kind of survival of the fittest in there,

Achase, what do you mean by Rams? Could you tell me the full name, I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.

MdngtRain, you could get something like that going too, just scale everything down. smaller fish, smaller plants. It's possible. Just a lot of planning. If you set it up with a lot of pre-planning, you'll be fine.

I've just read a post on some other website (or a FAQ, I forget) that gives you steps on how to set up a perfect plant substrate that can in turn, be under whatever kind of rock you want. Im going to probably fix everything down, then lay out these layers, then top layer rocks. Perfect for plants.

I'll try to get a link up if I can find it again, its bookmarked on my ipod i think.

 

[SLZM]

oh wait, did you mean Ram Cichlid? those are very nice, I'll definitely think about adding some. It says they need excellent water conditions, but hey, that's the plan.

They're very colourful, I did want to add Cichlids, but I had heard they're aggressive. Some weren't but I hadn't bothered to look for any.

I see you have puffers, what are they like?

 

[achase]

By rams I mean German Blue Rams, Bolivian Rams, Golden Rams, Electric Blue Rams.....rams in general.

I love my puffer (I have only kept dwarf puffers but I have done lots of research on the other types) and would recommend them to anyone who is willing to commit to their specific needs (they are a little more high maintenance than regular fish). Puffers are pretty much a species only fish (aggressive and predatory - sometimes) and even then they are best kept alone. So I wouldn't recommend a puffer for your tank unless you wanted to put a divider in. Puffers are so cute and full of personality which is why I love them. They remind me of dogs...happy to see their owners and are always hungry/begging for food.

I use eco-complete and have always had good growth with my plants (all low light plants). Low light plants in general are easier to maintain and seem hardy so I tend to stick with them.

 

[SLZM]

I've heard they're pretty aggressive, which I've always found strange since most of the commercially common ones look so small and aggressive. I wasn't planning on getting any but they're cool little fish for sure. I was just googling inverts and such the other day and came across a nasty shrimp called the mantis shrimp. I'd post a pic and talk more bout it but I'm on an iPod in McBride. Once we're done skidooing and come back, I'm guessing I should make that frame too

 

[SLZM]

Oh btw those rams you listed are cichlids. Not sure if you didn't know or if it was just the wording. Probably the wording or you like to seperate them. idk. U still know more bout them than me lmao

 

[paperdog9]

We still need to know what size of tank you have to give you advise for stocking and scaping and such.

But, I can tell you that if you are looking for inverts, red cherry shrimp are the bomb! They are algea eating shrimp and will help clean your plants very nicely, they breed by themselves, and are cool looking. And it you are looking for plecos, I could recommend otos (which aren't actually plecos but they are very small and eat algea), bristlenose plecos, or clown plecos. For any more advise though, we will need the tank size.

PS I have noticed the thing about the inverts section. Strange...

 

[SLZM]

oh sorry, pretty sure its a 70-some gallon tank, but i'll inevitably have to measure it properly to make the frame

 

[OrangeCones]

Puffers are pretty much a species only fish (aggressive and predatory - sometimes) and even then they are best kept alone.

Every puffer is an individual, and different people have had different experiences with them.

I have a dwarf freshwater puffer in a tank with 27 otos and herd of Badis badis juvies (about 1.5 inches long now). I've not seen any aggression between my puffer and any other fish. Ziva was the last fish added, so maybe that has something to do with it. When she meets up with a Badis, they stare at each other for a second or two, then each move off in opposite directions. Maybe she has too many snails to hunt? She absolutely ignores the otos. If some flit by quickly, as they do when they after a water change or when the lights first come on, Ziva just stops dead in her tracks and waits until they move away, then goes back to what she was doing (following a snail usually).

 

[ValRasbora]

You said you wanted a pleco.... My clown plec totally ignores my plants and just chills in his cave until just before lights out.

 

[SLZM]

yeah a lot of people have mentioned clown plecos, as with search engine results. i'll definitely check it out, i really like the pitbull plecos. they're super small, so it'd be cool to get a big group. they're hard to find though, and i don't like to go over the internet.

i had two plecos of a type i had no idea about. just decent size, pretty good.

also @OrangeCones I have heard that if you put a "normally" aggressive fish into an already established tank, they'll be more docile, but I have little experience with non-community fish. Would another type of fish make a good snail eater?

 

[IThinkTherefore]

Would another type of fish make a good snail eater?

Loaches! Most types, anyhow

 

[ValRasbora]

Ahh, I was thinking pitbull plecs after I posted that. Heh.

@ the ecosystems thingy, at one point my paludarium was nearly slef-sustaining. It was awesome... Some mosquitoes got in there, started to breed and therefore supplied everyone with food. When water evaporated it watered the land plants. All I had to do was pick the occasional algae out and do a quick water change, I wish ALL my tanks were like that lol!

 

[SLZM]

haha actually? thats amazing, do you still have it/have it self-sustaining?

and i used to have a loach. golden dojo loach named Bruce, very cool. I'm not sure if he ate any large snails, but there was a time where the walls of the tank were covered in tiny, tiny snails. I think he ate them, or at least put them in his mouth. (i did see him just drop a couple.

to deal with the problem, i would just crush the snails with my finger, which the fish usually ate after though

 

[ValRasbora]

no, this was months ago and it only lasted a week or so. It was very enjoyable though, haha.

 

[SLZM]

oh haha, a brief environment. thats still pretty cool. how did it... "collapse"