General advice you think EVERYONE should have while starting a tank

[shimmercat]

I work at Petsmart in the fish department. It's actually because of this job that I've discovered the wonderful hobby of fishkeeping! Now, I know what everyone here thinks of the chain petstores, but I've actually been told (by knowledgable customers) that at this particular store, we actually have a decent fish section. Most of us care, if nothing else.

I get asked many questions every day, and I (being a relative n00b to the world of fishes!) can't always answer them. I'm usually pretty good about saying that I don't know and recommending that people look up information that I can't answer online. I've also started recommending other fish stores in the area for some of the fish we don't carry (the only loaches we have are clowns, for example).

But I'm often asked questions that I just can't answer, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out a little bit! I've learned so much about cycling and general stocking from these forums, but I want to be able to answer more than just those questions. I figure I'll ask for your suggestions.

1) I know that zebra danios are great for cycling a tank, but what about tanks that wouldn't be compatable with danios? What are good, hardy, cycling fish?

2) What do you think are the most common mistakes that people make when first beginning the hobby? I'm talking about people that care but just make a stupid mistake.

3) If the person didn't learn about cycling and brings in dead fish and ammonia- or nitrite-saturated water, what is the best solution that could save the rest of their fish, while not messing up the cycle?

More to come when I get asked them!

 

[Kuroshio]

#1-hardy fish: every fish is suseptible to the damaging effects of ammonia. Try the fishless cycle. Does your chain carry ammonia? Maybe talk with the GM about getting a few bottles of ammonia and a one page *free* fact sheet on cycling. Just include the fact sheet with each first time fish purchase.

#2-The most common mistake: not cycling followed closely by poor fishmate choices. Again most of this would be resolved with the one page fact sheet.

#3- at this point, they have more fish and are in the middle of a fish cycle, they should look into Seachem's Stability, my personal fav. or Bio-Spira, which is also a MFT member favorite but not as available or stable as Stability, and add that to the tank. Look them up if you are not aware of them, lots of threads here re: them.

hope that helps!!

 

[shimmercat]

Ah, I should have said that most people are NOT willing to do a fishless cycle. Remember, the good majority of these people have NO clue what they are getting into! They are offended enough that I suggest that they not buy all their fish and the tank in the same purchase, much less dare to suggest that they not get any fish for 2 weeks to a month! I also find cycling with fish a little easier to achieve and to explain than fishless cycling. To make things worse, many of these people speak English only sparingly, and/or have never had even a high school-level chemistry course.

Chain stores don't have much of a choice in the items they carry. That's usually set by corporate. But we do have the cycling fact sheet! I keep a stack handy, but I don't always agree with the sheet. Some of the information I've learned hear contridicts the sheet.

Seachem's Stability also works for cycling? I'll have to see if we carry that.

 

[Kuroshio]

Actually Stability is for cycling, and promotes healthy bacteria colony as well. The directions say to add one cap for each 10 gallons on day one and half that for the next 6 days. add fish at any time during this week. The bottle is good for a few years as well. Not like the one time dose of Bio-Spira that needs refridgerated and isn't guaranteed on purchase. Don't get me wrong, I hear a lot of good things about Bio-Spira, I'm not saying it isn't everything that Froggy says it is

In that case, I would suggest either of these bacterias, maybe feeder fish?? for starters? Too bad about your clientelle.

 

[discus4everGrl]

I personally, would not push those instant cycle products. Mostly because, a newbie aquarist is prolly not going to use it right and those solutions are expensive. It may be percieved as the fish store trying to sell an expensive product. For the price of two packs of bio-spira, you could purchase a book which will prove more valuable if the customer is serious about wanting to do it right. The key to cycling is to not introduce many fish during the beginning, ie, two to three small ones. Trying to convince people not to stock they aquarium to the max is the best advice, especially considering that the average new aquarist overstocks to begin with.

I think the biggest mistake new aquarist make are buying the tank and then doing research when everything starts to go wrong. I would recommend researching well before starting the hobby.

 

[svetlana]

I my petsmart they have good fish selection but mostly for big tank: SA and CA cichlids, clown knives, pacus, all kind of sharks and lots of plecos. For med. sized people they only can offer some cories, danios and sometimes gouramis, well black'n'white mollies. No tetras or rasboras.
Also they treat for ick daily through circulation which is getting suppressed and become very durable ick. You never see any dots on the fish, once it gets to your tank it brings tough ick to cure which is bad no matter whether you QT or not QT.
I'd think about this also.

 

[Lotus]

I would say for those who want a tank and fish on the spot (as they always do), then a few danios and some Seachem Stability is about the best you can do. I'd probably try to sell them a good basic book on fishkeeping, too. Of course, selling extra stuff will probably make your manager happy.

One of the biggest problems with new hobbyists is adding too many fish, too fast, and adding fish that are incompatible or get too big for the tank. I think other problems include overfeeding, and not doing water changes (or not doing them right).

If someone is having problems with "new tank syndrome" the best thing you can do is to advise water changes. Something like Ammo-Lock will help if they have overstocked.

 

[FisheyLisa]

1. Understanding cycling: a flow chart diagram might be worth while with what basically high levels of ammo, no2 & no3 do right in it (such as burning gills, shortening life span), it would take some effort, but would be really cool. When I got a tank as a kid I knew I couldn't put fish in right a way, but didn't know why and I don't think my mom did either, cause we washed out that tank with soap quite frequently (maybe monthly)-so cycling wasn't in mind. Heh back in the days before the internet...our research was my cousin's tank.

2. not to dump all their fish in at once-or a bunch of plants. I think we did this when I was a kid, and I did it when I restarted the hobby. It has taken my tank months to have stability. With too many plants, I had a lot of rotting and more ammonia.

3. Feeding: I totally overfed, again adding to ammonia probs.

4. Stocking as far as proper space for amount of fish and species. Like most fish don't do well in a 2.5 tank, though their bodies can fit into it. And nix on the inch/gallon rule.

5. Water changes to help in cycling. I changed mine every other day, I think, and added prime/ammolock to condition (helped with the ammo?? and definately with chloro/chloramines). Esp. for noobies, cause with water changes as long as the water is the same, it is the healthiest way, I feel...and only way to remove some things. Also they will most likely not want to change the water so frequently ever again, and may reconsider fishless cycling..heh.

6. I hear a lot about ppl not knowing about vacuuming. I knew about that when I was a kid, so I figured it was obvious. Oh and test kits, but if they know of cycling...it's given.

last: tell them about places like here if you can. I happened upon fish forums on the internet. They have totally been life savers.

 

[2e0raf]

cycling is a definate must, from my own experiance (relativly short) since last december, i bought a 10 gal grave heater and filter filled it up waited a weeek or so baught my fish out them all in together without declorinator and the wondered why thay all dies one bye one, i was in two much of a rus to cycle but it saves a lot of time,money and fish if you do.

 

[Timbo]

Firstly tell them to follow you step by step.
Sell them a tank (Kit form is good. Tank, heater, filter etc etc etc) The bigger the better, (It looks good and maintainance is easier) Include Cycle, Aqua plus or you equivilant. and a multi test kit. We NEED to know the local pH. Good base medium (Sand is ACE) plants (Real if poss).Tell them to come back next week for a fish after it has been running for a few days.

If the pH is alkaline, Bog Wood etcwill bing it down, then a livebarer (Just the one ) is OK (My tap water is pH 8.8, you can imagine the trial I had in the beginning). Or, if more acidic, a hardy type, Maybe a bristlenose (pH adjuster may be needed. or last resort Chemicals). Tell them to do regular water changes, (1 Bucket a day is a good rule of thumb, but the test kit and the size of the tank, should dictate for the first two or three weeks), Warn them about pH, NO3 NO4 Amonia etc etc but try not to scare them, give them this web site Address and tell them not to be too frightened to ask questions. come back next week.

Then talk with them and go Slowly through the set up over about 6 months. One at a time (Maybe two later on). Remember this is an ENTIRE ecosystem you / thay are trying to build, Fish, Plants, Snails, Scavengers etc. Snails are good , especially in the early stages (If thay get out of hand later there is always Clown Loaches who will irradicate them almost over night). At the end of every meeting is a customer, and the lives of their fish (If we didn't care about the fish, we wouldn't be here). Help them , take time , talk to them as REAL people. Your knowledge will increase and their enjoyment will also.[/FONT]

If poorly fish with no OBVIOUS signs of disease are brought in Try Liquisil (Interpet No5 General Tonic, or equivelent),if crustaciaa and gastropods are not present (They all contain copper Crabs / Shrimp/ Snails hate copper, but always advise water changes.

 

[Avalon]

Knowing many people who like fish but don't or "can't" own them because "they always died" indicates 1 thing: People lack the fundamental knowledge to keep fish. A fish in water simply will not do, but how do you educate a person in 5-10 minutes in the LFS?

Speaking of ecosystems to a beginner is overkill. You have 30 seconds to capture the attention of a customer, and only one shot to make it worth your and their while. So what do you say?

Ice breaker: "Are these your first fish?"
An obvious question to someone buying the "starter kit."

I'd say the next step is to introduce the filtration concepts of mechanical and biological. I wouldn't worry about chemical, and carbon has no immediate consequences in an aquarium.

"Your filter is great at removing solid wastes (poo). That is called mechanical filtration. The success of your aquarium depends upon the biological filter. There are many kinds of good bacteria that break down the wastes of fish. It's important that they are established. This Bio-Spira will really help build the bio filter."

So far we have starter tank sale maybe with some gravel, fish sale, and bio-spira sale. Let's see what else we can get.

"If you'd like to monitor the progress of your bio filter, you should have ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits." (simply explain the spikes and that ammonia and nitrite should be zero)

Test kit sales. What else...

"You should also consider a gravel vacuum to keep the gravel clean. The build-up of waste is not good, and water changes are made simple." (sell Python for larger tanks)

Gravel vac sale. What else...

I'd say a book is a 50/50 chance. If I had to guess, the majority of people do not like to read. They'd simply rather have you tell them what to do.


So, you've sold them all of this stuff...don't feel bad. Your boss should be proud. I'll now take a showing of hands of who DOESN'T have all of that stuff. Yep, that's what I thought. I too have it all, and I constantly use all of it (except for the test kits...I know what I'm doing...but in the beginning, I used them a lot).

THE IMPORTANT thing is that you don't dump too much info on the beginner at once. If you developed good relations with the customer (indicated by how much of the stuff they bought that you just recommended), they'll be back when something goes wrong. Give 'em two weeks. Give them a solution, not a band-aid, even if the solution is honest information. Only when they can keep fish alive and are happy can you move on to selling more advanced stuff like plants and critters that ultimately create an ecosystem.

 

[dethjam316]

If I had to guess, the majority of people do not like to read. They'd simply rather have you tell them what to do.

i laughed when i read this, and then i shuddered knowing it's all too true.

 

[FisheyLisa]

The problem with telling people what to do is that by the time they get home the have lost a lot of what you said, if they understood you in the first place. You need to back telling with a reading thing so they can refer. Or make it picto-grams. diagrams and short directions like: vacuum gravel monthly and benefitial bacterial help filter tank. Plus you said you were in a bilingual area, pictures will definately work well.

I forgot to mention. When I started, I read tons of stuff on the internet and read many different books on community tanks , fish species, etc. 2 things that I remember having revelations on were knowing what test numbers meant (I actually read the pamflet!!) and when to service your tank...ie water changes are weekely, vacuum once a month...one book printed out a little schedule to follow. I thought that was really good, since it is overwhelming to thing your are cleaning, vacuuming, changing water, etc all at once. I also realized that you do certain things at different times-clean decor one week, clean filter sponge a different one. In addition to organizing myself, I got to learn that you CAN'T do it all at once or you wreck up hte stability...at least starting out.

All of this advice would be a book though and you don't have time to give private fish keeping lessons to every customer. You have to do the best you can and make sure they at least buy all the basic necessities, then if they don't understand what it is, they get home, open and read some directions. If they wonder why, they'll probably research it themselves (fingers crossed) or come back to the store and say, "why'd you sell me THIS??"

good luck,
Lisa

 

[FisheyLisa]

http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/aquaria/general-faq/beginner.html

Here is a good link I just heard about.

 

[ComHam]

Vacuum once a month? I've been doing it every water change since i had the tank (Christmas). That bad?

 

[FisheyLisa]

actually, since I use the syphon to get water out, I run it over the gravel, through the plants, and what ever else needs it weekly. The once a month thing was a guideline in the book, and I think I have heard it somewhere else.

I think a fish keeper should be doing what needs to be done when it needs to...glass dirty-wipe it, gravel dirty- vacuum it, when necessary.

starting with guidelines was good (otherwise I would have went balistic cleaning everything each week, gotten sick of all the maintainence, then become lazy and done nothing at all) then I worked into my own groove.

 

[Exevious]

If anyone ever has a question about any additive other than water conditioner tell them to stay away from it!!!

They are more trouble than they are worth... and dont do anything different than a little patience, water changes, and conditioners.

PH is not a big deal... other than ensure that the fish get properly adjusted.
IE floating, mixing in established water, refloating, re-mixing, float and release.

Remember this is beginners, not any type of special knowledge fish...

3 years for me... never put anything but water w/conditioner, I never even really check anything after the cycle... I just keep the tank clean and do the water changes every 2-3 weeks or when the algae starts to appear.

Ive been lucky not to run into ich or infections yet... but I would buy a little one gallon and fill it with aqaurium water, and the fish... then treat.

Never treat your whole tank!!
Bottom line dont put anything else in the tank...
unless your experienced and keeping highly specialized fish.

 

[Exevious]

One more trick I use.....
Ask if they have a friend with an established aqaurium.
Tell them to try and get a used nasty filter. (from a healty source tank)
and use it... most of those inserts can be manupulated to work if its a different size.

Ive done this with all my new tanks... once all the water passes across it, your cycled. Takes only a few hours.

 

[FroggyFox]

Hey and dont forget valuable things like these threads. Ecotank wrote a great FAQ about starting up a tank! http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19568

I think research is invaluable...the more you're willing to learn about water chemistry and the fish you want to keep and the equipment BEFORE you get the tank or anything else the better someone will have it, and the more likely they'll be to be successful in the hobby.

 

[shimmercat]

I agree, research is the most important thing that anyone can do before getting ANY sort of pet. Unfortunately, probably only 1 in 4 people do any research (or have priory experience) before getting a mammal or bird. That probably drops to 1 in 10 before getting a fish tank.

Sometimes people astound me with how much they care. One girl in her late teens came in and asked to look at a rat. She had obviously done her research on what she would need for this animal, and she told me that she had "worked her way up to the rat," starting with keeping plants. XD Another time, a man told me about the oscars that he had for 15 years, before they finally died of old age. That was another happy story. He wanted suggestions on what to put in his tank now that they were gone, not oscars. I recommended semi-aggressive.

The way I've come to look at this job is that I will help those who are willing to listen. I can't do anything for those who won't. For compatability questions, I answer with my best instinct or experience, but almost always tag on that "these are living creatures, and there are always exceptions to the rules."

I have had a few successes. One notable one involved a woman who came in to by a plant for her betta to eat the roots of. She ended up leaving with $50 of supplies, including a 2.5g filtered tank (small, but better than a bowl!) and a tiny heater. Plus fake plants and a snail. Happy little betta now!

Another was a woman who wanted to dump a full load of fish into an uncycled tank. I got her to purchase 3 white clouds and she said she'd come back in a few weeks for the rest. Whew!

So... what ARE good fish for cycling a tank? What are the hardiest ones? Zebra danios, white clouds, tiger barbs?