Gouramis in a community tank..a few questions

[HawkeyeErik]

Hey all, this is my first foray into your forum, so please be gentle..

A bit of background-- I'm not a complete fishkeeping novice. I've succesfully bred and kept Red Tiger Oscars for many years but having gotten a bit worn of the one giant oscar, one giant plecostomus vibe..I've decided to develop a community tank.

Now, what I'd ideally like is something like say, 6-8 Angelfish(will start small and allow them to grow into the tank) and 12-16 Gouramis(a couple kissing, a couple opaline, a couple pearl, and the rest different varieties of dwarf), and 2-3 mid size plecostomus.. my only question is, is this workable?

I've thumbed over several different web sites and I know that Angels and some Gouramis can be moderately aggressive, while there's other species of Gouramis (the dwarfs especially, no?) that can be very shy and skittish.

My thought was, though, that in a tank that size, with two or three live plants, that there really shouldn't be much in the way of territorial issues and that there'll be more than enough room for the shy ones to avoid the aggressive fish.

So, am I shooting too high for the number of Gourami? Can I have more? Should I avoid the shyer species all together? Are there any other breeds that would be okay to mix with? I'm really not a fan of mollies/swordtails/guppies/neons and so on.. so I'd prefer to really just keep it Gouramis and Angels. On the same note, though, I wouldn't want any of the fish to be leading horribly stressed/harassed lives.

Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks in advance.

-Erik

 

[Kissyboots]

First of all, welcome! I hope you find this place useful.

How large a tank are you planning to have? I've never had Angelfish or Gouramis, or even plecos, but it seems that 12 -16 gouramis is quite a lot. Hang around a bit. I know "DwarfGourami" has some gouramis I think; he could help with that.

Um, since i have no experience with those fish I guess that's all I have to say. Anyway, good luck and welcome!

Oh, what other tanks do you have? Just curious...

 

[tom91970]

If you want a nice looking gouami that can be kept in a large group I would go with the pearl. They are probably the least aggressive of the species and are really nice looking.

 

[d3sc3n7]

Well first off, thats going to be a VERY large tank..to inhabit all of those guys. Using the good old 1in/gal method here.

8 Angels: 48 inches of fish, full grown. So thats 48 gallons
16 Gouramis (even if all dwarf) = 48 inches of fish full grown, so thats 96 gallons
3 plecos: 36 inches, full grown = 82 gallons of tank.

Now, I've never had angels, so I cant comment there. However, I think any where close to that many gourami in one tank, is asking for trouble. There are many times on here, its suggest to not keep 2 in the same tank.

So, you may have to re-work your stocking options

 

[iapetus]

d3sc3n7, I think you mean that 48 + 48 + 36 = 132 gallons to house all of those fish.

 

[d3sc3n7]

lol, Ok, so a little on the bad math.

 

[HawkeyeErik]

Oh, what other tanks do you have? Just curious...

I actually have no other tanks right now, Kissy. I was engaged not too long ago and the ex convinced me that my fish were not worth the water bill(which were kinda exorbitant in hindsight). But at the time I had 3 10 Gallons, 4 20 gallons, 2 55 gallons and 1 90 gallon that all housed different sizes of Oscars from fingerlings to my biggest(22 inches) and one 5 gallon tank that held feeders.

This is really my first foray into a true community tank, although I did have a couple convicts and dempseys mixed in with some of the mid-size Oscars.

Now, I don't have the tanks/fish or the girl..bet ya can guess which I'd rather have back.

Well first off, thats going to be a VERY large tank..to inhabit all of those guys. Using the good old 1in/gal method here.

8 Angels: 48 inches of fish, full grown. So thats 48 gallons
16 Gouramis (even if all dwarf) = 48 inches of fish full grown, so thats 96 gallons
3 plecos: 36 inches, full grown = 82 gallons of tank.

Now, I've never had angels, so I cant comment there. However, I think any where close to that many gourami in one tank, is asking for trouble. There are many times on here, its suggest to not keep 2 in the same tank.

So, you may have to re-work your stocking options.

Almost immediately after my post I realized the #'s I had set were probably on the high side. And I vaguely used the one inch = one gallon method, though I didn't give the Angels 6 inches(gave them 4) and I didn't count the Gouramis as 3(Counted 'em as 2) and I counted the Plecs as 6, which gave me a rough number of 62 for a 55 gallon tank.

Some of the literature I had thumbed through gave me the impression that both Gouramis(especially kissing) and Angels preferred to be paired, so I'm a bit confused as to the suggestion that you not keep 2 in the same tank.

Even still, before having read your comments and suggestions(which were very helpful, btw, thank you), I'd settled on a much lower number for Gouramis, probably in the range of 4-8. I've figured on adding some Rasboras and Hatchets as small, low maintenance, relatively hardy and non-aggressive fish.

If you want a nice looking gouami that can be kept in a large group I would go with the pearl. They are probably the least aggressive of the species and are really nice looking.

They are a very nice looking fish..def will keep in mind.

 

[TabMorte]

If you're going to put that many gouramis in you're going to need LOTS of plants and hiding places.

 

[brian1973]

well IMO the only way your dwarf gourami plans would work is #1 very large tank, #2 you would have to have a higher number of females than males, and most LFS do not sell female dwarf gouramis due to their lack of coloration. I have not been able to successfully keep more than one dwarf gourami in my 30 gal. probably because they were always 2 males. have added a couple links for you on dwarf gouramis.

The Dwarf Gourami
Freshwater Aquarium Species Profile: Dwarf Gourami

I have had kissing gouramis when I was a younger and they were aggresive to my other fish.

I have no experience with Angel fish so i cant comment on them.

 

[d3sc3n7]

I've kept 2 neon blue gourami in one tank with no issues. So, I guess you could chance housing 4-8. However, as already stated, make sure there are plenty of territories and hiding places. If you break line of sight, you will cut down on the aggression between the species. Without redoing the math, your probably still looking at a 75 gallon tank or so.

If you do go with this plan, I'd love to see your tank though...it will have to be beautiful with all those angels and gourami!

 

[HawkeyeErik]

I'm glad I decided to go ahead and ask you all from your personal experience as opposed to just the reading material floating around on the web. Most of it lists Gouramis as 'peaceful' or 'non-aggressive'. I would've thought I could've had a tank full of them..heh.

Though I have very little experience with community tanks, my number one goal even when breeding my Oscars was to have happy, healthy fish and it sounds like there's very little chance of housing more than 2-4 Gouramis without 1) heavy vegetation, 2) a very high likelihood of stressed/abused fish. The vegetation doesn't bother me so much as the latter.

So, I've done some more digging and some more looking and I'm curious as to if anyone has experience with these fish in community tanks with their Gouramis.

Hatchets(Marble)- I remember my mom having a good 6-8 of these in her tank and they didn't seem to bother anyone..just kinda hung out in a little school at the top..I presume they'd make a pretty good tank-mate, yes? Share roughly the same PH and water temp as Gouramis as well.

Killifish- I've never seen a lot of these even in my local pet stores, but (according to the internet, heh) they're listed as peaceful and are roughly the same size as Gouramis..so I'd have to again assume that they'd be decent tank mates. Same PH and water temp, too.

Rainbowfish-Almost word for word from the Killifish notes above.

Razboras- Same thing as the Hatchets, basically..I remember them being in my mom's community tank and just kinda minding their own business. Obv, same PH and water temp.

Snakeskin Barb- These I know very little about..but here's a bit I've found on them.. "Unlike other Barbs, however, these fish are not as bullish and most fair well in community aquariums with similarly sized, short-fin fish. They also grow to about 2 inches, unlike some barbs that quickly grow to a fairly large size. " I'm a bit iffy, but I would have a pretty sizeable tank and would probably only have one, maybe two..anyone have any comments at all on these? I'd hesitate quite a bit on putting one in before I found someone with first hand knowledge.

Clown Loaches- It sounds like they get pretty big, but they're listed as 'peaceful' and LiveAquaria.com says they like to hide and what not. Very attractive fish, but with it's potential size I'd be concerned about aggression.


Thanks again for any comments, guys..you've been awesome.

 

[d3sc3n7]

I think you could add any of those guys in with gourami. For the most part, from what I've see/heard gourami are really only aggressive tword their own species. I keep gourami and tiger barbs in the same tank, no problem. The killifish are a little pricy, but they are beautiful

 

[raduque]

I also keep Gouramis and Barbs in the same tank - my 55 houses 2 gold gouramis, 2 paradise fish, 4 tiger barbs, 1 hi-fin rosy barb and a single chocolate pleco.

The barbs peck amongst themselves, the two gouramis get into an argument with each other every so often, and the two paradise fish (one male, one female) act like a couple.

 

[HAAA]

you just decribed my family

 

[skratikans]

croaking gouramis can be kept in groups...so can sparkling...just some ex of gouramis on the low aggressive end from personal experience

 

[roark fishies]

When I decided to add gouramis to my 46G I bought a reg DG and a flame dwarf. After about 2 days the dg got very mean to the flame. I put the dg in the 10G to give the flame time to heal but he eventually died. Bacterial infection from all the nipping from the dg. I still have the reg dg (now back in the 46G) and he is semi-aggressive. He likes to give chase to my white skirts but doesn't really hurt them. He pretty much ignores everything else. I'd be hesitant in mixing the gouramis. It's one of those things that you won't really know until you try it.

 

[skratikans]

its not necessarily a try it first then learn later experience...dwarf gouramis are aggressive..you shouldnt mix them at all...period.. if you by chance get two to peacefully stay together...thats luck..and a really large aquarium..

 

[roark fishies]

its not necessarily a try it first then learn later experience...dwarf gouramis are aggressive..you shouldnt mix them at all...period.. if you by chance get two to peacefully stay together...thats luck..and a really large aquarium..

That's what I meant. He IS getting a really large aquarium and he might get lucky if he tries it. Do I suggest doing that? No. But there is an exception to every rule. He could wind up with 2 peaceful gouramis that stay on opposite ends of the tank cohabitating just fine. Probably won't happen. But he won't know til he tries it.

 

[katarina]

Hi. I am new to this forum but not to fish. I have kept various tropicals for about 20 years. I currently have two male moonlight gouramis in a 55 gallon. I am pretty heavily planted. Guoramis like to claim the biggest plant around so I have two plants of equal size on opposite sides of the tank. One claims one plant and one claims the other and only seldomly chase each other. They really don't seem to like platys and will chase them away from their plant but otherwise they are fine. Moonlights get large though. 6". If you are doing multiples I would use either moonlights or pearls. Pearls are shyer but prettier. Either no more than two males in the tank or as many females as your tank can carry. Don't mix the sexes. The males can beat up the females pretty bad unless you have a HUGE tank with LOTS of plants. I would not use dwarfs at all.