green Chromis grunting and light Q

dial

Large Fish
Jun 8, 2003
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#1
hi all. last night i was watching my tank and i noticed my 3 Green Chromis acting very strangly (normaly the stay out in the open) but last night they were ducking in and out of the rocks. that was weird. then i notice a noise and cause my dad was watching the tank with me it sounded like a fart ao i asumed it was him. but he left and i noteced it again but this time it came from the chromis. as i watched them 1 seemed to shiver and make a grunting (farting ) noice. whats going on with them.

also how many (halagen) do i need to light up my tank. i DONT want to grow hard corel - not interested. just the soft stuff. and id prefer 12 volt lights as i can play with them and try to create a day night situation with timers and dimmers.

currently i have 3 40watt fluros , but you guys have told me i proberly wont be able to have any other soft corals apart from leathers.

cheers aron.
 

KahluaZzZ

Superstar Fish
Jun 12, 2004
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#5
MH is metal halide. Halogen lights are inefficient..they don't have the correct spectrum, and the bulb could blow if it touch the water...they're so hot...might consider that. Fluorescents are a good choice if you don't plan to have harder corals. They don't heat 2 much, can light the whole tank equaly.
But they are pricey on the long run. 3x40 fluorescents x 30-40 $ = a lot.. dunno how much you pay, but if you need to change every 7 month, it's gonna cost you a lot of money. Why change bulbs ? Well the bulbs tend to change color spectrum when they are "tired"...they switch to the red spectrum...wich helps growing unwanted algaes or cyanobacteria.
A metal halide lamp costs more at first, but the bulb last longer than fluo, and when you change the bulb it costs less than fluorescents. Also it adds a cool ripple effect in the tank. Metal halide can increase your tank temp..so in the summer, better put some fans to cool down.
Fluo and MH both have some downsides..but i can't find an upside for halogen.

mush means mushrooms..like this :
 

dial

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Jun 8, 2003
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#7
thanks kahlua.

so should i be right with soft coral (inc anemonies) if i stick with my fluros. becuase if you read through some of my other threads they told me my fluros wont be any good for other corals apart from leathers. if this is the case. and i get some MH how many would i need at what Wattage etc.... remember im not interested in hard coral.

cheers aron.
 

KahluaZzZ

Superstar Fish
Jun 12, 2004
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#9
The thing about MH and your tank is...well your tank is beautiful..nice cover, nice acrylic and all...but MH is hot and take space..so what i've seen for MH is very high wooden top ( with fans ) or topless. So you'll have to say bye to yours if you don't wanna overheat. Anyways looks like it wouldn't fit. There are stairs behind your tank right ? Wouldn't be so aesthetic. Single MH are cool for 3' tank IMO. Dual MH must be a better fit for your setup. Twice the $ also. I have a 4 feet 55 gallons with only one 150 w HQI MH and the corners are darker.. so i mix it with fluo until i buy another. The other possibility would be to get a more powerful mh and put it higher, but again forget the look.
If you're willing to spend for 2 MH, you could build yourself a high wooden top and add fans..very easy and costs almost nothing.

I switched from fluo to MH and even with the low wattage i have compared to some systems, i would never go back to fluo only. The stuff is growing much much faster.
I think you could grow anything under fluo..but you need space under the hood..and with normal fluo, you can't get much more than 4x40w..maybe 5 in your tank
There is always power compact fluo, but $$$.
Anyways my best LFS has 3 huge tanks with hard and soft corals in it.
2 of them have MH, and the last has fluo..and there is Bubble Corals ( LPS so in a way it's a hard coral ), Fox Corals, Green Star Polyps, Frogspawn, Mushrooms, sacrophyton ( leather ), and zooanthids..all under fluorescent.
The bubble is in the tank since like 6 months and is beautiful..Bubble Corals need strong lights so..
..dunno when the other corals were put into this tank but they look great.
So yeah i think it's possible to achieve something with those lights.
 

dial

Large Fish
Jun 8, 2003
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#11
no the fluros i have in the tank now are 36watt but those t5 are 56 watt plus i would have enough room for an extra one.

plus the toal retro fit would be less that $500 aus for me. that to me is better that 1 MH at $350+.

i might research it a bit more.

cheers. aron
 

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dial

Large Fish
Jun 8, 2003
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#15
no t5 cant run of standard fluro ballast. i asked. it looks like ill be getting myself some t5's

just got a quick question. the t5 54w tube is it 4ft the suppliers site says its 4ft. but the light shop i went to today said it was 5ft.

and also anyone have any t5 - do they recomend it - apart form MH ( i realy dont think i have the room and at $350+ a pop i dont think i can afford it) i got no other choice.

cheers aron
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#16
I've had T5 in the past and quite like them. They certainly make sense in some situations. A T5 is a bit more efficient at generating light than a regular t8 fluor as you're getting the same power/light out of a smaller diameter, so it is more of a 'point source' so greater 'intensity', plus the narrow diameter means it is possible to get very efficient reflectors to work with T5's , and I tihnk these are pretty vital to efficiency. In cross section they look like 'gull wings'(like the spider reflectors inthe link). A good HO T5 is about twice as bright as a normal fluor. tube, plus as you say, you can jam them in good.
Here's a couple of things to think about lighting. First, you are using lighting to power zooanthellae algae that lives inside the body of a coral. That means, to get to the algae, the light must be powerful enough to get through some coral flesh. Forget watts per gallon, the light must be powerful enough to punch through and get to the algae. It must also be the right 'colour' when it gets there as well. Anyway, that is why I don't like watts per gallon, espeecially in the smaller size tanks. You might have a 10 gallon tank with highly coloured hard corals. Now you might put some NO fluors on top and say 'great I have 40 watts of light on my tank that really holds 8 gals , therefore I have 5 wpg, therefore I can keep all sorts of 'bright ' things. WRONG. Your light is so dispersed that it is not intense enough to do the job. Big tank, small tank, you still need a minimum level of power to break thorugh to the zooanthellae, so you would still need a 150 Watt halide, or some more powerful fluorescents. Plus the dispersed nature of fluor lighting means it doesn't puch through depth so well.

Fluor versus halide - dispersed light v. point source. I have used fluorescents (and use them recently) to grow all sorts of stuff successfully, and you can certainly get a good amount of light, measured as lumens, into your tank. Perhaps the big difference between the two is how the lumens are concentrated. With a fluor you get a constant intensity of light, but a halide is a point source and so you get a more uneven distribution with shadows, ripples and so on. Now you might think ripple lines are trivial, but a lot of evidense says no - each ripple acts as a light focusing event, incresing and decreasing the amount of light on a very short timescale, by up to a magnitude of 15. This apparently is very good for stimulating growth and colouring as this is a response to the max intensity at any time, not the average intensity. Ripple lines are good! Also the microsecond scale rest from light is also cited as being good for preventing bubble disease by giving the zooanthellae a breather.

Intensity/duration - don't think you can get away with lower intensity for longer time - it doesn't work like that. Power is what you need. If power is costy for you, it is possible to cut back to only running halides for 3 or 4 hours a day without too much bad happening. You can't run fluors 18 hours a day to try to match this.

Cost/organisation - I like halides as the long term cost is good (less bulbs to change, worry about) and it make s your wiring simpler. I have a hood with 6 overcharged NO fluors jammed into it in the basement and the wiring is horrible and messy (and potentially dangerous). Also I like open top tanks, and the ripple lines are important I think.

So if I was going to spend money for you I'd get halides. If I look at your link, that's 300 USD for a twin tube T5, and you are going to want 2 of those, compared to whatever for 2 150 DE halides.

Also I see PC is an option for you, and that's not bad but I think T5 is a bit brighter

My advice is go look at tanks with the different lights on and see what looks good to you.
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#19
I hope that wasn't too much. I gues the summary is

'If you want to keep your hood, and don't want megatons of evaporation T5's are pretty good.

If you want the ultimate lighting go metal halide

The cost difference seems to balance out as about zero in the long run unless you have a small/shallow tank and can get away with just a pair of T5's'
 

dial

Large Fish
Jun 8, 2003
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#20
rhanks wayne. i would still want to keep the hood. caus e if you check out my pics the tank sits infront of stairs. but the t5 lighting would proberly suite me best. ill keep looking around thoes.

thanks very much. aron.