Happy as a CLAM!

Apr 8, 2006
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Kearney, NE
#1
I think I am going to be a proud father of some cichlid babies, I'm just not 100% sure yet.

My Livingstoni is brooding eggs in her mouth! Weird thing is that she is the only livingstoni I have. She buddies around with my newest tank addition, the red shoulder peacock. They seem to protect territory together and are rarely without the other by his/her side. Would I be having hybrid babies?

LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING A PROUD DADDY! But I am definitely not prepared for this, I need quick advice! I never expected to be breeding cichlids but I definitely want to raise these little guys!
 

Helena21

Superstar Fish
Oct 7, 2005
1,850
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Essex, England
#2
well if shes they only livingstoni, then yeah you are gonna get hybrids. If you wanna raise them then you can but i have heard that you shouldnt let them leave your house, as in dont sell hybrids. If you decide you dont wanna raise them them you will have 2 cull them
 

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
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Florida
#5
I think it's to help ensure that people end up with the species they are wanting, rather than a "watered-down" line that includes hybridization.

For example, some unscrupulous fishkeepers may decide to breed hybrids, sell them as a single species, and then the person who ends up buying them gets nothing but hybrids (i.e. after their 'pure' lines have bred with the 'impostors' [hybrids]).

Does that sound about right?

BV
 

Apr 8, 2006
72
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38
Kearney, NE
#6
Wow I just did a google on cichlid hybrids and there are a lot of negative connotations with breeding hybrid cichlids. Websites even suggest destroying the eggs or even the fry! I'm sorry, but I had no intention on striking it rich with a NEW cichlid species, and I am certainly not going to kill some little baby fish, especially since the two fish involved obviously chose each other to mate.
 

Helena21

Superstar Fish
Oct 7, 2005
1,850
2
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Essex, England
#7
Cichlidroobs- you do not have to 'destroy' the fry, just leave them in the tank and they will probably get eaten by the bigger fish. The strongest ones MAY survive and if they do then they do and you can keep them. Let nature take its course :)
 

SinisterKisses

Superstar Fish
Jan 30, 2007
1,086
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#13
Cichlidroobs said:
Wow I just did a google on cichlid hybrids and there are a lot of negative connotations with breeding hybrid cichlids. Websites even suggest destroying the eggs or even the fry! I'm sorry, but I had no intention on striking it rich with a NEW cichlid species, and I am certainly not going to kill some little baby fish, especially since the two fish involved obviously chose each other to mate.
Its quite likely that she's holding unfertilized eggs, and they'll disappear after a few days. They do this all the time.

Hybrids are a very touchy subject. The 'two fish involved obviously chose each other to mate' sentence is completely false, btw. I'm sorry, but they didn't chose to mate, if they even did. They were forced into a situation that they wouldn't be presented with in the wild, and with no actual mates of their own to breed with, the instinct to reproduce is so strong that they will breed with whatever they are able to breed with. They didn't choose to mate, essentially you forced them into it. I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying how it is.

As for why hybrids are frowned upon, that answer is simple (and I'll try to keep it delicate, lol - I appologize if I come across as snippy or something, I just feel very strongly on this...). I am sick to DEATH of walking into a fish store (whether locally owned or box), and crusing through their cichlid section, and seeing absolutely nothing but hybrids. Mbuna and peacocks are absolutely the worst example. I can't remember the last time I saw a purebred mbuna at a store in town. Its disgusting. I should be able to buy a fish labeled as a 'yellow lab', and actually get a yellow lab, not some mutt fish. Its at a point where I don't buy mbuna in stores anymore, I buy all mine online.

Basically, allowing the fish in your tank to breed and create hybrids, and then raising those hybrid babies up, is irresponsible to the hobby. If you want to let one of two of them grow up out of curiosity's sake, that's one thing - but then what happens if you decide to clear out your tank, and you've gotten attached to that little mutt fish, and give it away too? Now you're helping along the already problematic distribution of hybrid fish.

One other thing. There's a particularly large cichlid forum that I am a member at. There is an unidentified cichlid folder for people to post in. 99 percent of the post are excited new fishkeepers posting up their unknown fish they brought home from the LFS. 99 percent of those posts turn out to be hybrid fish. These new fishkeepers then get angry and frustrated that they didn't actually get what they paid for, and a lot of them turn away from cichlids because of it. Its a big headache that should be unnecessary.

Sorry for the long post, but you asked ;) As I said, I very strongly feel that if this female of yours actually has fertilized eggs, you should absolutely not let them live. I know it sounds cruel, but you honestly are doing the best thing you can do. Plus, a lot of hybrids are born mutated or disfigured, with very poor genes and very weak. That alone is more than a good enough reason to me to cull them.
 

Apr 8, 2006
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Kearney, NE
#14
Well I dont know how many times I have to say i'm not going to sell any of them and I never planned this, I always thought you had to make conditions correct for fish to spawn, I had no idea until now that they would just up and do it with whoever is around. I feel like i'm some kind of enemy of the state from what these websites are saying, but really, they aren't ever going to leave my tank, so I dont really see a problem with that. Sure the fish have been "forced" into living in my tank but I work pretty hard giving them a good envrionment and if they "choose" or instinctively mate with whoever is around I can't control that and I will CERTAINLY NOT euthanize anything, regardless of what anybody may think of it. The term "Mutt" probably shouldn't be muttered in my presence again, it carries with it a disrespect that I will not tolerate. I'm not asking you to buy my fish, and I guess if you don't approve you can see your way out of this thread, I respect your opinion when it is applied to the public, pet stores and the like, but if you are trying to tell ME what to do you can piss off. I understand you want good fish from your LFS but asking me to kill these eggs in my personal tank for the good of your hobby is ludicrous.
 

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SinisterKisses

Superstar Fish
Jan 30, 2007
1,086
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#15
Lol I think you need to calm down a little bit. You asked what the big deal with hybrids was, and I answered your question. That's just the way it is, I never said you had to like it or even agree. Don't ask questions if you don't want honest answers ;)
And it can be controlled...just don't put fish together that will mix :) Although to be honest, I don't think your little girl there is holding fertilized eggs...I suppose its possible she bred with the peacock, but I'm not sure its overly likely. If they're not fertilized, she'll spit them out or eat them in a few days, maybe pushing a week max. If she holds them any longer than that, then its safe to assume they were fertilized after all.
 

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Apr 8, 2006
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Kearney, NE
#16
I suppose all of this is assuming that they are fertilized, I just didn't like your last statement on the previous post. Seemed like you were telling me straight up to kill them, not answering my question. I was pretty steamed when I read it and I came across as pretty calous intentionally. Also, putting smileys after your condescending comments dont make them friendly, I appreciate your answers to my questions, just please never tell me what to do with my fish again. I never tried to create an environment for breeding, it just happened, we'll see if they actually are fertilized and if they are, you can enjoy the pics that I take of my very much alive hybrid fish.
 

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SinisterKisses

Superstar Fish
Jan 30, 2007
1,086
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#17
I said right off that I apologized if it came across as anything other than informative, so you wouldn't take offense. And I never said you had to kill them, I said that in my opinion, you should - I never flat out said you had to. I'm well aware that I can't make you do anything. You asked why the hybrid debate was such a big deal, so I told you why. As I said before though, I really doubt they're fertile, but you'll have to wait and see.
 

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
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Florida
#18
Hmm...*BV inserting light humor to cut tension*...
So, my convicts appear to have spawned. I sure hope the eggs end up fertile so that I can be absolutely positively 100% sure that I have a female and a male. :eek:

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your fish, Cichlidroobs. If this batch turns out to be infertile, I'm sure you'll have future setups that involve some breeding; be it hybrid or otherwise. It's always fun to raise fry and watch them develop into healthy adults. Hopefully you'll get the chance to do that with your cichlids...if not with this batch, then later on down the road.

BV :)
 

Apr 8, 2006
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38
Kearney, NE
#19
I guess if nothing else this has given me the confidence that I can provide a good enough environment for these cichlids to promote breeding. I will probably avoid hybrids in the future but I suppose I want to pursue breeding cichlids. I'm not dumb to the fact that the genetics definitely arent ideal, but I do hope I can get at least one new tankmate through my own device. But if they aren't fertile thats ok too, just good to know that I am at that level, confidence is good.