having problems setting up a sump

[dbacksrat]

Okay, I built the overflow shown here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=631726&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I have a Rio 1700 UL pump as the return (I decided to start with a cheap one in the event I burn out the motor)
First of all, getting the overflow running was a pain...this involved sucking on the standpipe and opening a valve...I ended up having to add another ball valve on the standpipe so I could keep the pressure in the pipe (if that makes sense at all)--I cemented the new valve in place at my aquarium, and little did I realize how potent pvc cement can be as I sucked on the standpipe.

The new valve worked, and as my sump finally filled after two hours of trying to get the overflow working, I cut the power to the return pump to see what would happen. The return pipe began to siphon water from the tank back into the sump--so now I had input from the overflow and return pipes.

When the water level got back up over the intake on the overflow, nothing happened...the pump finally ran out of water from the sump...and now I'm stumped. I think I'm going to have to break down and buy a real overflow (or get a drilled tank, but that's going to be costly and tedious).
I hope this makes sense to someone that actually took time to read through all of this...and if you have any ideas as to how the heck to get this to work right, I'm all ears. Thank you.

 

[wayne]

I can't see the pictures on the reedcentral thread, but will try to look. Certainly you need to drill a couple of holes in the return pipe to stop the syphoning back to the sump when the pump quits. Drill one just above the water line and one below where the return enters the display - that way, when the pump, a bit if syphoning occurs till the hole goes above the water line, and the syphon breaks.
Do you have a picture of what you made?

 

[dbacksrat]

Do you have a picture of what you made?

no I don't have a picture--I can get one though by this weekend

i knew you would answer wayne--thanks

 

[RockingCricket]

I'm using a fluval to return the water to the display from the sump, so I can't really help, but I wish I had seen the reef central thread before I built my overflow. It looks a little more robust than the waterbottle siphon I made. Oh well, so long as they work.

PVC cement soon fills those pipes with some pretty noxious fumes huh dbacks?. I learnt that one the hard way too.

 

[dbacksrat]

wayne, I don't think I understand where to drill on the return--hopefully you've figured out how to view the pictures on that link

I was uploading pics, but my computer at my present location is sloooooooooooooow...so I'll have to update the pics either tomorrow or wednesday when I have access to a faster computer/connection

 

[1979camaro]

drill in the return about 1/4in to 1/8in below the water line...that way the siphon will break when it reaches that level and it wont flood the sump

 

[wayne]

You can drill one equally above water level and the syphon will break instantly, though these jam up real quick with salt, so drill one below the water line as well.

I have not had time to mess around with the images unfortunately - one thing - if the water level in the 'bit' outside the tank isn't lower than in the tank the syphon will stop.
Examine it - does it look like it should work?

 

[wayne]

Can see them now - looks ok , pipe out lower than water level?

 

[dbacksrat]

yes i set up everything according to the directions--if that's what you're asking

I had it working...I couldn't achieve equilibrium between the overflow and the return pump, but I didn't have the time...the main thing i didn't like was when I let the water level run down past the overflow's intake, and the water was pumped back in, the siphon didn't restart
also, I drilled a hole (probably not big enough, I'll have to do what wayne said in the 2nd to last post) in the return, but I still have a problem with back siphoning when the power is cut to the return pump

 

[wayne]

I'd really like to see some pics.... I can think of a couple of things.

1. On the outlet (where syphon starts (and breaks)) do you have a pipe going up or a little u bend first. If no u bend bubbles will creep in and break the syphon when overflow is low/stops.

2. I am not sure how you can bugger up the anti syphon hole.

 

[dbacksrat]

Okay here are some pics--I don't know if I captured what you wanted...sorry for the quality too

1) the front of the overflow at an angle...I forgot to turn off the flash (my bad)....also, the algae isn't as bad as it seems in this pic

2) the standpipe--this requires the valve to be open as I suck out the air, then closed to maintain pressure...One of the great things about AZ is the dust--especially in my house, it gets all over

3) the above view of my DIY overflow--note the transition of the diameter of the pipe (from 1 1/2" to 1/2") that creates a painfully slow flow (should have gone with 3/4" PVC)

The soonest I can get more pics is tomorrow night, if these do not help at all. Oncemore, thank you all for helping set this up--I doubt I could do it without you.

 

[RockingCricket]

Regarding your overflow and it not staying primed. If you followed the instructions precisely (making sure point A is above point B etc etc) then the only reason I can see why it might not be working is because air is either getting into, or is not completely removed from the syphon.
Where are the directions your followed?...or did you duplicate yours just from the picture?

BTW, your coraline is awesome dbacks. I'm a jealous man!

 

[jammerz]

if i were you i would go buy an acrylic HOB overflow with U tubes.(mine was 48 dollars well worth it after dickin with a DIY for me) Mine works really well. Drill the hole in yer return line as mentioned above to break the siphon that goes back to yer sump via the return line when the power goes out. Also with the U tube the water pressure on the tubes will restart the siphon even if yer not there to do it when the power goes on. then all you have to do is put that ball valve on yer return line to sync the flow to and from your display becuase. With the correct amount of U tubes you should be able to increase your total flow by opening up the ball valve more. it took some playing around for me but i got it perfect runs flawless now. i got pics if you need.

 

[wayne]

I assume that where the siphon downtube enters the sump it is submerged. Air is getting in somewhere

 

[1979camaro]

as far as regulating the overflow/return so they are in equilibrium you need one of two things:

1) a bigger pump - this will fix it only if you are getting to much overflow and flooding the sump

2) a ball valve - you could put this on the return side of the pump if you are getting too much flow up into the main tank (eg pump is too big) or on the overflow side if you are flooding the sump

 

[dbacksrat]

hmm....the pipe that enters the sump wasn't submerged--so that does make sense as a culprit

I do have a ball valve on my return...those suckers are tough make little adjustments to. As for a bigger pump, I'll have to get a MagDrive in the near future.

Tomorrow after school I'll be able to get this thing working now that everyone has helped me

Rockingcricket: Coralline only takes time (under the right params). I've had my tank set up for 13 months, and it's finally starting to take off. I remember when I would ooh and aah at Camaro's coralline...it can only get better from here

 

[OCCFan023]

Tomorrow after school I'll be able to get this thing working now that everyone has helped me

with thanksgiving comming up, you should have some free time to fiddle aorund with it sorry just had to get a plugin for thanksgiving!

 

[wayne]

the pipe that enters the sump wasn't submerged - that's your guy - everytime it stops working at full mode as the water level drops down to the level of the overflow it wil go glug, glug, allow some air into the tube, where it goes tothe top and party over.

The only thing you need to do to regulte flow is control the speed of the return pump. Don't touch anything to impeed the flow of water going down and into the sump.

 

[TLM4x4]

ponders outloud..."OCCfan soooo reminds me of Dougie on King of Queens, the "food fanatic" lmao" I have got TWO turkeys in my freezer and another FRESH one coming *BOUNCINGS

 

[JustinP]

dbacksrat, i built this overflow a few months ago and you didn't build yours quite right. The standpipe is not supposed to be capped like you have it. if you want to add a valve on the top like you did, it has to be added to the "U" that goes over the tank wall. You need a separate standpipe like in the pic in the link that is open to the air. This will fix the auto-restart prob.
Like this:




I actually modified mine and took out the first upward bend and made it like this:

I used a Rubbermade velveeta cheese container as an overflow (that's what the black rectangular box is). I spray painted it black with Krylon Fusion and it looks just like a pre-made overflow, can't notice it. Now to prime the thing, shut off the valve that is right before the sump. Fill the over flow box with water. Open the top ball valve and suck on the opening (not the standpipe) until you until you get water and quickly turn it off while still sucking. Now the tricky part, open the valve (the one right before sump)SLOWLY and the siphon should start. Then turn on your return pump, this is important, turn on the return and make sure water is flowing before the overflow pipe runs out of water to siphon or it will lose the siphon and you will have to start all over! If you get gurgling, try stuffing a little cotton or paper towel into the open stand pipe. Dont clog it though, it has to be able to suck air in order to auto-restart. I dont know why people say to cap it! if you do it won't restart. Once you get it working, try the power off test and it should work. Mine works surprisingly well and it cost me $8 to build! I tested it at approx. 240 GPH in the bath tub but I run it slower at about 200 so it is quiet plus I prefer a little bit slower flow through the fuge anyway as this isn't my main source of tank flow. I used 3/4" pvc by the way. Good luck!