Help! Ammonia levels won't go down...

[Cloverleaf1985]

Hi. I have been lurking for sometime but would really appreciate some help.

I have a 54L tropical tank with a 3" red tailed black shark, an angel fish about 1" across and 2 sunset platys.
I have had the tank since the beginning of Nov. I cycled for a week then added 4 neons....This went fine so then added the above fish and removed the neons (rehomed due to angel fish) for a while the ammonia etc levels were fine. all of a sudden about 2 weeks ago the ammonia spiked to 5. I have been doing between 20-50% water changes every 2 or 3 days and adding Nutrifin Cycle each time.
I feed them once a day and vacuum the gravel each time i do a WC.
I tested for ammonia again tonight and it was 4.6. As well as the bacteria i have been adding ammo-lock but the levels just arn't dropping.....

The only thing i can think of is that i added more gravel (rinsed thoroughly first) and at the same time squeezed the filter sponge a few times in the old water. Could that have upset the balance? What am i doing wrong??
Fish seem ok, no redness and are generally active and happy.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[kezdoc09]

ok well you didn't actually cycle your tank. to cycle a tank you need to add a source of ammonia to encourage the arrival of bacteria. This can be done by using pure ammonia in a bottle which is called a fishless cycle or by adding 2 or so fish to produce the ammonia which is what you have done. What you should have done before adding more fish is keep an eye on the nitrate levels only once these have appeared and the ammonia and nitrite has gone is your tank cycled. The neons had a lucky escape because the fish that are used for cycling tanks rarely ever make it which is why fishless is better. Now unless you can temporarily rehome your fish you are going to have to sit tight and hope they make it. Ammo lock will help but will still show up on the readings. good luck x ps a proper cycle can take 4 weeks plus!

 

[Newman]

proper cycling technique with a constant source of ammonia will take way longer than 1 week, so lets assume that your tank never finished its cycle.

EDIT: basically what kezdoc said!

If you ever rinsed anything in your tank with tap water, you can kiss all of your beneficial bacteria in your filter goodbye because chlorine or chloramine in the tap water will kill them. Copper will also.

If you only use tank water (assuming this has been treated with dechlorinator at some point) then that wouldn't be your issue.

Your issue is that Ammo-lock locks the ammonia, but detoxifies it. this means that even though its no longer toxic to your fish* it will still show up on your tests because no product REMOVES the ammonia from the tank.

* - your fish have likely been exposed to the 5ppm of ammonia way before you noticed it and detoxified it with ammo lock, so its likely that they wont make it :[ ammonia levels of even 1ppm will be deadly to your fish.

Keep doing water changes, checking the levels, and just give this time. in time the beneficial bacteria in your filter will build up again and the ammonia will go down to 0. of course that would mean that you'll have future problems with Nitrite =/

Basically your tank is going to have to cycle again, this time with fish :[

I don't wan to sound like I'm condemning you or anything, you did nothing wrong from what i read(except not cycling your tank), unless you're holding out on some other info -_- lol

 

[Cloverleaf1985]

Thanks for your replies.
I do add tap safe to the water before adding it. So it sounds like i didn't leave it long enough to start with. I guess i'll just keep doing the water changes and hope for the best. Will the Nutrifin be doing any good?

P.S this is my first tank so i figured i'd make a few mistakes....just hope my poor fishes survive. (

 

[Newman]

hopefully they will, but do not expect them to.
Nutrafin will help minimally. you don't really have to use it.
Not only is the issue not leaving it long enough but you never added the ammonia necessary to start a cycle in the first place.

I'm seeing more and more people just running their tanks with filter and water for a week or two and expect that to cycle.
NO It didn't cycle because you never started to grow bacteria.
your ammonia spike of 5 pm likely started the process and now fish waste will feed the growing bacteria, as your tank cycles.
If all your fish die then you must supply pure ammonia to that tank until in finishes cycling. it will be done when you're adding ammonia to the tank daily (whether with fish in the tank or pure ammonia) and the levels read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some detectable nitrate.

To clear something up about the above statement, i mean don't add pure ammonia to the tank if there are still fish in it...

 

[OrangeCones]

If you'd like to measure the level of TOXIC ammonia in the water, this works out great. Several of my friends that have recently started in the fish keeping hobby use them and didn't lose any of their starting fish. My local fish store sells them for $7. They work for a year or more.

Seachem. Ammonia Alert

The test kits measure total ammonia. The dechlor you are using changes toxic ammonia to a non-toxic form, but its still a part of the total ammonia amount, so will show up on the test kits.

 

[Newman]

ah yes that ammonia alert is VERY useful. i run i on my Betta breeding tank. i also suggest to get that little thing

 

[OrangeCones]

Sure helps from making a lot of extra water changes If I ever start a plantless tank (*laughingc), I'll buy one.

 

[Newman]

If I ever start a plantless tank

As you would normally say- "Do those exist?"

 

[OrangeCones]

I've heard rumors hahahaha!

 

[JRB__]

Hi Clover, I find it helps to have a rough guide to follow when it comes to cycling, especially fish-in method. This is a rough guide on the process, keep in mind it can vary.

Day 1
The newly-added fish have not yet produced any measurable amount of ammonia. All readings should be near zero.
*Note – If you’re setting up the tank ahead of adding fish, the Cycle will not begin until a source of ammonia is added. i.e. bottled pure ammonia or your new fish!

Day 3
Ammonia levels will begin to rapidly rise to near-dangerous; break-in fish may show some signs of discomfort and stress such as rapid breathing, poor feeding and darting about. First stage bacteria are beginning to become established, but their numbers are low at this point.

Day 5
Ammonia levels reach their peak and begin to decline as first stage bacteria start to convert it into nitrite. Nitrite levels begin to rise. *Note - Weaker fish may succumb to ammonia poisoning; a partial water change will dilute ammonia and reduce stress for a brief period. No more than 20% (more than this is likely to prolong the cycle process)

Day 8
First stage bacteria are well established and are processing ammonia as fast as the fish are producing it. Ammonia levels return to zero and nitrites climb rapidly. Fish may perk up due to temporary reprieve from stressful conditions.

Day 14
Nitrite levels reach their peak. Fish may again show some signs of distress. Small water changes (up to 20%) can help protect break-in fish and reduce stress without significantly prolonging cycling time.

Day 27
Nitrite levels continue to be elevated (can last for several weeks) as the second stage bacteria begin turning nitrite into nitrate.

Day 29
Second stage bacteria multiply rapidly and begin to catch up with built up nitrite. Nitrite levels drop rapidly and nitrate level becomes detectable.

Day 30
Both first and second stage bacteria are now well established and can keep up with the ammonia output of the fish, turning it first into nitrite and then immediately into nitrate. Do a 50%+ water change and a surface gravel vaccum. Tank is now "cycled" and ready for additional fish. Add no more than 2-3 at a time, also allowing time after each new addition for the bacterial colonies to cope with the increased bio-load.

 

[Cloverleaf1985]

Thank you for this info, i'm so confused as i read in one place to do lots of water changes, and then others that i shouldn't. The ammonia levels have been high for more than 2 weeks and they don't seem to be dropping. :S

 

[Newman]

that one place values the life of the fish. more water changes dilute the ammonia and nitrite making sure that less fish are subjected to their toxicity. This will, like JRB said prolong the cycle but the fish shouldn't die as often.

 

[littletankbigworld]

That ammonia detector is so cool! I hope the chain stores carry it!

 

[JRB__]

It's totally up to you how much and how often you do water changes.
The only thing is, the more you do, the longer the whole process takes but the more of a chance your fish will survive. Also some fish will fair alot better than others when it comes to being exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite. Find a balance that works for you and your particular fish.

 

[OrangeCones]

Or use a dechlor that detoxifies ammonia. No fish loss.

 

[JRB__]

go on Cones, you know you wanna say it! USE PRIME AS YOUR DECHLOR!!
lol
But does prime detox nitrite aswell as ammonia? isn't nitrite even more harmful to fish than ammonia is.

 

[OrangeCones]

go on Cones, you know you wanna say it! USE PRIME AS YOUR DECHLOR!!
lol
But does prime detox nitrite aswell as ammonia? isn't nitrite even more harmful to fish than ammonia is.

JRB__, there are a lot of dechlors that detoxify ammonia. I'm sorry that you feel I'm pushing a product, but its cheap over here, readily available, and works well. Other brands work just as well.

And yes, you can detoxify nitrite with Prime also, but overdosing according to the directions on the label. Nitrite is just as toxic as ammonia, and in smaller amounts, so yes, its harmful.

 

[JRB__]

JRB__, there are a lot of dechlors that detoxify ammonia. I'm sorry that you feel I'm pushing a product, but its cheap over here, readily available, and works well. Other brands work just as well.

And yes, you can detoxify nitrite with Prime also, but overdosing according to the directions on the label. Nitrite is just as toxic as ammonia, and in smaller amounts, so yes, its harmful.

OrangeCones, I don't think your pushing a product, it was a joke *PEACE!*. I'll stop with the prime comments but prime is the best, so keep recommending it to people. I've actually recently found a place where I can buy it, I'll be switching when my current dechlor is finished.