Help identify strange new fish...

[audjie504]

Let me preface this with the fact that I live in China and cannot speak much Chinese. Therefore going back to the fish store and asking for the name of the fish is out of the question.

My husband and I got a fish today... cannot for the life of us identify it. The store owner seemed knowledgeable about its care... water temp around 23-24 Celsius, okay with tetras and angelfish (its tank mates), and it didn't seem to be a schooling fish so we bought only one. Appears to be a top feeder and is really hyperactive (possibly stressed?) in our tank right now.

Description: distinctive long, flat "nose" but definitely NOT a longnosed gar or a shovelnosed catfish. Mouth is underneath the nose, not part of it like the gar. Will post pics below.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give! *thumbsups

 

[Toam]

my guess is a needlefish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenentodon_cancila

 

[exhumed07]

by the shape of the mouth and body it looks like a young spoon bill to me. I'll post a pic of one I caught last spring. all be it mine was about 17 pounds so much bigger then what u have but shape is nearly the same.

 

[audjie504]

Thanks for the input, fellas.

It's definitely not a needlefish, as the mouth does not extend to the tip of his 'nose.'

Spoonbill fish is pretty much right on in regards to mouth and general shape. Is it possible that it could be a 'baby' one? I tried to 'Google' an aquarium variety, but to no avail...

The LFS owner gestured to say he would grow to be about a foot and a half. He is about 2 inches right now and does not seem be bothering any of his tankmates.

Any other guesses?

 

[Newman]

deffo a spoonbill or may even be a paddlefish fry. very nice but needs a massive tank.

 

[audjie504]

The more I read about paddlefish, the more I'm thinking you guys are correct about it.

Now...I have a huge dilemma. Maybe I can get some suggestions...

There is no way any of my tanks is large enough to house him comfortably. Judging by the info that the LFS gave me and the smaller tank they were housing him in, it doesn't sound like they know exactly what to expect from this 'little' guy either. What do I do?

Is there an ethically correct choice? My largest tank is about 500 L, should I put him in there? Help?

 

[OrangeCones]

http://www.fws.gov/gavinspoint/images/youngpallids.gif

Does your fish have a ridge along the topline?

 

[tonymac]

Listen carefully-this is exciting. There are only two known species of Spoonbill in the whole world Polydon spatula in North America, and Polydon or Psephurus gladius which is native to China. The Chinese Spoonbill was believed to be the largest freshwater fish in the world. I say was because it has not been seen in the wild since 2007! Unless the fish was imported from North America (which is possible) you have a fish which is believed to be extinct! Find out from your retailer the source for this fish and please contact the authorities to save this fish if it is indeed the Chinese Spoonbill! Thank you for the post!

 

[tonymac]

By the way-the spoonbill is a filter feeder -meaning it eats plankton. I dont know how you feed it in an aquarium setting unless it has been conditioned to receive other food as some filter feeders have. Judging by the shape of the spoon in the 3rd pic it looks like a Chinese Spoonbill-but remember I'm no icthyologist, so please do contact an icthyologist for proper identification

 

[audjie504]

Ok... I've spent the day digging around on the net for various pics and information on the two different types of spoonbills. The American version is, indeed, a filter-feeder, but the Chinese variety eats small fish and crustaceans. I can't seem to find much info on captive breeding of the Chinese Spoonbill, but the websites I'm seeing specifically say "extinct in the wild" so that makes me believe they do breed them in captivity.

I've found some pictures online of the two varieties. Judging by the shape of the caudal fin, I'm thinking, again, that this is the Chinese version. I can't find a good photo, but here's a diagram. The American's caudal fin is more even on top and bottom, like this picture. The American's color is very light and ours has a definite light underside and dark upperside separated by a line near the top-mid section. There's a bit of shimmery red below this line, which we originally thought to be part of the filtration system seen in several videos of the American version. It seems like there are just so few photos and very little info in general on the Chinese version (at least in English) that it's hard to say with certainty what he is.

Plans are to go back to the fish shop sometime this week and ask the lady if it is from China or America. Wikipedia also has the Chinese common name that I could bring along to ask about. We'll update with progress as soon as we have some!

 

[tonymac]

The American spoonbill is commercially bred in fish farms in both America and Europe. European aquarists occassionally keep them. So if it was imported from Europe chances are it is an American one. I was not aware of the Chinese actually breeding their species, though I know some were kept in captivity. I'm with you-it looks like the Chinese version. Thank you so much.

 

[Newman]

dont want to be a skeptic but dont you think it is a little inaccurate judging the fry compared to pics of adult fish? fry change as they grow you know, so i can still hypothetically be an American version.

What are you feeding him? and if the biggest tank you have has no large or predatory fish, then I would say move him in there if he is willing to be moved. you know if he is healthy and not stressed out.

 

[exhumed07]

the american spoonbill or paddlefish can reach sizes of 8 feet long and over 200 pounds. I think the world record is in missori. but if it is american it can get pretty big. where I live a 30 pounder is rare cause u have to snag them either on porpouse or by accident like I have with the 2 I've caught. I'll be excited to hear if it is the chinees version of it though.

 

[OrangeCones]

dont want to be a skeptic but dont you think it is a little inaccurate judging the fry compared to pics of adult fish? fry change as they grow you know, so i can still hypothetically be an American version.

I posted a link that shows a pic of juvies (American species being raised to be released into rivers/lakes).

 

[tonymac]

Im not an Icthyologist, and I dont pretend to be. I am not saying definitively that it is or isnt a Chinese Paddlefish. I am saying that since Audjie is in China, there is a chance it is a Chinese Spoonbill, and determining the origin of this fish will go a long way in determining which species it is. If the origin of this particular fish is in the wild in China, then this area of collection should be preserved from further exploitation and studied. If it is in fact from a hatchery in N.A. or Europe that pretty much settles the debate. If it is from hatchery in China are they breeding the Chinese species in captivity or the N.A. one? The bottom line is we are trying to help Audjie identify their fish and beyond that, if in fact this species was collected in the wild in China, to take advantage of the opportunity this presents to science. New species of fish are discovered every day in fish markets in Southeast Asia and South America, just because this fish happened to make to a pet store we shouldn't assume which species of Spoonbill it is.

 

[tonymac]

According to the official website of the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature) "Artificial reproduction (of the Chinese Paddlefish) has not been sucessful" Most of the specimens captured by the Chinese government have died in captivity. The only question that remains is whether or not the fish in question came from the wild, and if it did, where that source is.

 

[audjie504]

Thanks, guys, for all the thoughts and input. Hate to keep you all hanging on but we haven't had the chance to go back to the fish shop and might not until the weekend. We've moved the little guy from our rounded, vertical tank into the bigger tank (and he seems to still be swimming in circles!)

I agree that it probably isn't a fair comparison to say he is or isn't one or the other based on pics of adults. OrangeCones, he is definitely NOT the same as the link you posted. I think that is a totally different type of fish. We definitely have a paddlefish. Problem is I have yet to find a pic anywhere that is identical to how he looks... yes, probably because he is so young.

Although he looks to me to have more features of the Chinese version I keep telling myself that it is probably (hopefully) still the American one. We do not live near the Yangtze River, where the Chinese Paddlefish are native... although again, who knows if that means anything. If it is the American one, I really don't have any ideas on how to feed him. One thought was moving him to the bigger tank at school (I'm a teacher) meant that there would be more water-floaties for him to hopefully filter feed on. My home aquarium is cleaned weekly, but it's been awhile for that school one. I've been crushing up the food when I drop it in hoping to see him open his mouth and snag a bite, but to no avail so far. I know that none of you are paddlefish experts, but any thoughts on how to do this better?

Again, will keep you updated on other progress.

 

[exhumed07]

the NA paddle fish will swim against current with it's huge mouth held wide open getting anything edible in. be it bits of fish, algea, plankton, insects, u name it. but they are not predatory or scavengers by any means. they feed exclusivly on things we can barly see or smaller.

 

[audjie504]

the NA paddle fish will swim against current with it's huge mouth held wide open getting anything edible in.

He never seems to be holding his mouth open (like I've noticed in a lot of the videos of NA paddlefish) and there is really no current for him to swim against since my tank has an external filter where filtered water falls in from above. I'd say that maybe I could create a current for him by adding an internal filter, but that was what I had in my tank at home and he never really appeared to be swimming against that current either. I wonder if babies do something different or if I'm just not watching him enough to notice the little things he's doing.

 

[exhumed07]

as for the current u could put in a powerhead at one end. but thats what I know of cause all but only one case that I know of all of the fish caught have been in heavy current. my dad used to run high lines in the mississippi and snagged 5 in a slough. thats the only time I've heard of them being caught in slow moving water.