Help ME!

Gnome

Large Fish
Oct 22, 2002
211
0
0
Shadow Moses Island
#1
Help Me,  ???
I got 15 gallon tank and it is already cycling about two weeks. the first week I did all the necessary things such as removing chlor and etc.. w/ water conditioner and put some stress zyme. I have one driftwood, 24" bubble wall, one whisper compact filter, one guppy, one black tetra, one male betta, one neon tetra and, one ember tetra, these fish for cycling my tank. after one week then I decided to have a flourite gravel in my tank for future plants so I bought one bag flourite and one little bag of regular gravel, washed them and mixed the gravel in the tank, my water became very muddy, luckily I already moved the fish w/ some of the water from the tank  ;D. after one day it cleared a bit ..then I changed 50% of the water w/ my tap water and put water conditioner to the tap, stabilized the KH&GH w/ the tank water and the water become clear the next day and the fish were back to the tank.

the thing that always bothering me is why when I get back home at 9.00 pm, when I turn on the hood light, the fish seems to be stressed and not active and they lose color, the neon back became kinda black and lose it's blue and red color, the same w/ the black tetra but w/ no blackish back. but after turning on the light about 15-20 minutes they regain their true color, can somebody tell me what's wrong? ( there is no algae).

and this happened before when I had a 3 or 5 cardinal tetras, the symptoms are the same w/ my neon, also the female betta became blind! because their eye membrane damaged! they are doing well until I removed all of my plants because they don't thrive, but before I had the chance to remove the fish (cardinals and the bettas) they are all gone in three or four days I think. I don't know what's the real McCoy because I think the first accident cause by the KH. It is too low ( My tap is very low on KH and high on PH !!!) and I think the ph swing Very fast.
but this time I redone the tank and have all the chemistry going well, like Ph at 7.2 w/ KH at 7-8 and th GH is at 8 ammonia is at 0.25 avg. no nitrite, I don't know the nitrate level. but the symsptoms come back. Is this because of the cycling is not completely stabil? and can you tell me if  the first accident w/ the cardinals is because I removed the Plants and the water had very low KH? did any of you have experienced this? ???

Thank you.
 

colesea

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,612
0
0
NY USA
#2
To answer the first part. Your fish are sleeping. Yes, that's right, fish do sleep. When they do they usually behave as if they are in a trance-like state, floating listlessly, sometimes stuck into plant decor or simply lying on the bottom, and all their color pigment drains so that they are pale.  When you turn the lights on, they haven't woken up yet. It is the same effect as if I walked into your room while you were sleeping and then scared the crap out of you by turning the light on. You are dazed, confused, blinded, and probably look like hell.  The best thing for you to do is turn on a lamp on the other side of the room where just a little slant of ambient light can reach inside your tank, then wait 15 minutes to turn on the hood lamp, observing your fish for wakeful behavior.  When the ambient light has sufficently woken up your fish, then turn the hood lamp on.  Turning the hood lamp on directly will scare the crap out of your fish and stress them out.

There are many other areas in your tank where you went wrong, thus causing the death of your fishies:

Mistake #1: Cycling a 15 gallon tank with four fish. Dude, I don't even recommend cycling a 20 gallon tank with four fish!  If you are too impatient for a fish-less cycle (see articles this site and other posts regarding fish-less cycle), you should only have 2 fish every two weeks to cycle a fishless tank, and those better be some darn small fish. A fifteen gallon tank could house a maximum of 6-8 =small= fish comfortably. Also to keep in mind when cycling is that 2 fish does not mean a 100% cycle. It means a cycle bioload for only 2 fish. Adding additional fish means re-setting the cycle process.

Mistake #2: Everything I've read and researched says you ought to have a thriving plant community =before= you add any fish. This will allow you to learn what is necessary for the husbandry of plants, stablelize the chemistries, light levels, and to re-arrange decor without disturbing or stressing out the fish. Once the plants are fully established, then you add fish. Having plants that aren't thriving and then having to remove them disturbs and stresses out your fish, as well as off-blances the cycle process of your tank.

Mistake #3: Addition of new gravel, flourite or otherwise, is stressful to the fish, even if you've taken the fish out of the tank and put them in a new bucket. First you've upset your tank's cycle process by the addition of new gravel. Second, you've stressed out and upset your fish by moving them around too much.  These fish have only been at your home for a week. Dude, that's like me upripping you from your establishment before you've even the opportunity to unpack. The fish were very stressed out by this.

Mistake #4: The 50% water change was probably an emergency proceedure, but it was a bad idea. This will completely off-blance a tank's cycle process, especially within the first two weeks.

Mistake #5: The use of cardnial tetras and neons to cycle with. These fish are not hearty dispite all the myths and their popularity.  They do not handle the stress of swinging water chemistries readily, nor would they survive the stress you've put them under with ripping out the innards of your tank so often.

Mistake #6: Keeping single fish of schooling species. Black skirt tetras, neons, and even to an extent guppies, need to be in schools of more of their kind to be comfortable and happy. One neon doesn't cut it. Minimum recommended is a trio (and in the case of the guppy, 2 females to every one male). Pairs are usually passable, but the larger the number in the school (professionals will say 6+) the happy the fish are and the less stressed out they will be.

Right now nothing about your tank seems completely stable to me. The best advice I could give you is read, read, read and research, research, research before you decide to try live plants again, and especially before you try to put more fish in your tank. Get all your decorating done and =leave the tank alone=. Do not add more fish to it, do not add more decor to it, and probably do about a 1-2gallon water change once a week. Monitor your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. A tank is not considered completely cycled until the ammonia has spiked (sometimes as high as 1.0ppm) then dropped back down to zero, the nitrite has spiked and dropped back down to zero, and the nitrates generated are within 1-5ppm.  Then remember, the tank is only cycled =to the current bioload of fish=. The addition of new fish or of live plants or of large volume water changes will re-set the cycle of your tank.

As far as pH and KH are concerned, I wouldn't worry about them until you are 100% positive the tank as stablelized.  Usually fish bought at a LFS are already acclimated to the tap water conditions of your region so you do not have to play with your tap water chemistry at all or worry about changing/monitoring pH or KH.

~~Colesea
 

Oct 22, 2002
341
0
16
Silver Spring, MD
#3
could be the ammonia, it's pretty toxic to fish even a small amount the tanks not fully cycled keep changing water and maybe cut back on the feeding until amonia is 0 and the fish becomeing colorless after lights are turned on maybe b/c it's like someone flashing highbeams out of no where it can startle them
they are kinda stressed out from the ammonia so gottawatch that that can cause illnesses later on if not taken care of
 

Oct 22, 2002
64
0
0
#4
Well, I don't have any advice for you, but...

I noticed before that my neons become all grey at night when the tank light is off & we're hanging out in the (dimly lit) livingroom.. and I think that's so cool.  They *change color* when they sleep!

yeah... so maybe I'm too excited about my fish... :)
 

Gnome

Large Fish
Oct 22, 2002
211
0
0
Shadow Moses Island
#5
Thanks a LOT dude!
I have never really pay any attention before to the water chemicals/quality in keeping my fish but a couple months ago I decided to look more into it. I have researched many website for KH, GH, PH, and other things but I miss the most important thing, how to cycle my tank ::). Anyway now I'm enlightened by you guys especially colosea which points out every mistake  :-[.
it become more and more interesting!!!
 

colesea

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,612
0
0
NY USA
#6
I didn't mean to make you feel bad by pointing out all your mistakes. Sometimes it is difficult to see what could be going wrong with a tank when you don't even know where to start, which was the impression I got from your post. Hopefully things will be going better with your tank and you are not discouraged. The biggest drawback to this hobby is having to have patience (something not even I have in great abundance ;)), not only with estabishing the tank, but with yourself taking the time to learn all this crap. Trust me, there are people who dedicate their lives to the study of aquariums and fish (as is evident by college course in ichthyology and the plethora of publications), yet still will tell you they only know the tip of the iceburgh.

But if you learn everything the right way the first time around, it will make it easier to understand what are proper "shortcuts" once you become a tank-aholic. You'll also enjoy the hobby more because you'll have greater sucess and less fustration!
~~Colesea
 

Oct 22, 2002
98
0
0
57
Monroe North Carolina
#7
Gnome, that's the beauty of this forum.  What a relief it is to have somewhere to go and ask questions and get so much helpful info.  There is alot more to fishkeeping than meets the eye.  One suggestion I have is try a product called Prime, by Seachem.  It can be kind of hard to find, but it's made a big difference in my tank.  I had problems awhile back, some one suggested it to me, and it works wonders.  Go to the Seachem web site and read up on it...it works lots better than products (water cond.) I've tried in the past.   Good Luck!!!