Help needed urgently...

[osmanoo]

Hi everyone...
I am new to fish keeping. i have an approx. 55L tank and two inch gravel base and a oxygen pump. i had 9 2~3 inch gold fish variation and sucker fish in it...the first couple of weeks were fine, but then the fish started getting pale and started dying...i didnt know what to do...searched the net...changed the water around 30%. 6 of my fish died including the sucker. the rest three seemed to be doing fine. now i got another 4 gold fish and another sucker fish yesterday...the old fish are swimming fine but all the new gold fish are sitting at the bottom of the aquarium.i did a pH test and added some salt and sodium biphosphate to decrease the alkalinity of water but no use. i also have a heater in the tank and maintain a temp of 24~27'C. i feed them once a day...please tell me why are the fish sitting in the bottom. i dont want to loose them...please help....what should i do...some sample pictures are attached...

 

[Kayleigh750]

In my opinion, your problem is clearly that you have too many fish in such a small tank. 55 liters is approximately 15 gallons, which is barely enough tank space for ONE fish that can get as large and as dirty as a goldfish. Also, goldfish are cold water species, not tropical, so there is no need for a heater. Aside from that, and back to my point, your tank is overstocked, and they are probably dieing due to high ammonia or nitrate levels.

 

[exhumed07]

that tank is heavily overstocked. as kayleigh said. for one goldfish u need at minimum a 75 liter tank and an aditional 38 liters per goldfish above the first. goldfish are very dirty fish as far as bioload goes. they release alot of ammonia and other toxins through waste. one way to think about it is goldfish live in their own toilet. to many fish and the tank becomes very unhealthy. also the tank seems to be a brand new setup and the tank has not cycled yet if that is the case. your filter removes or well more accuratly stores the solid waste. but there are still things like ammonia and nitrites that build up in the water and are both very toxic to fish. now over time your tank will grow bacteria that will process those chemicals into harmless chemicals such as nitrates. this process of bacteria growth can take over a month and is called the cycle. there are multiple posts in the freshwater beginer forum about this process. in your situation right now water changes up to 50% are a must. and you need to take alot of the goldfish back if not all of them and replace them with much smaller cleaner fish like some neons or other tetras and danios. also the red tailed shark will outgrow that tank. he will not have enough room to swim and it would be like if u lived in your bedroom and never leave. not a good life.

a good rule of thumb with tropical fish is 1 inch of fish length per gallon or .25 liters. after you get more experience this rule can be bent but as a beginner i strongly suggest that you stick with that rule. my suggestion for stocking the tank is 5-10 neon tetras, 4-5 cory cats and maybe 1 bushy nose pleco or other dwarf veriety of pleco such as a clown pleco.

 

[Thyra]

I only wish you had asked some questions first before getting those fish the second time. I do hope you can take them back and that you will understand the problem. You need to understand "cycling" (and there is a lot of info on this site and the internet) Then you will need to make a decision as to whether you want cold water fish or tropical. They don't mix well. You also should have a test kit and pH is not your problem - fish will acclimate to your pH - but it is stress to be chasing it with chemicals and having it go up and down. As a beginner may I suggest platies - they come in all kinds of colors, are tropical, and fairly hardy. When you decide what you want, run your stocking plan by us and I am sure you get lots of advice. Oh, and welcome to the forum!!

 

[skjl47]

Hello; I tried to post a link to a site about cycling but the forum will not allow this to happen for some reason.

Here is the title of the article;
NITROGEN CYCLE AND AQUARIUM & POND CYCLING.
Perhaps you can find it by doing a search. It is a long and involved read, but covers many things.
Good luck

 

[osmanoo]

Thank you to all my seniors who have posted in this thread...your words of wisdom are the guidelines i will follow now...i'll try to take out some fish and make it comfortable for the rest...will also do a partial water change to decrease the ammonia nitrate levels in my tank...i'll keep you guys updated about the situation...Thank you all once again.

 

[osmanoo]

Hi everyone...I'm in mess right now...i did a 20% water change before i posted here and treated that water with anti-chlorine and water conditioner at proper matching temp before adding it to the tank. aslo added some sodium biphosphate yesterday...a spoon full...and turned on the heater at night as usual...when i woke up this morning...all the water in my tank has turned milky white...i was in shock...hurried up and checked the fishes who were surprisingly OK and swimming about in the water...better then before at least...what should i do for the whiteness of the water...cant change it all so i did a 25% partial change....can anyone help and guide me in this regard...???

Thank you...

 

[exhumed07]

the milky color will go away. what has happened is a bacteria bloom. that bacteria will eat the ammonia anc convert it to nitrites. once the ammonia is eaten most of the bacteria will starve to death and the water will clear. then it will get milky again as another type of bacteria eats away the nitrites and then again there will be a die off and shortly after that the bacteria will reach a balance with the ammonia and nitrites produced by the fish as well as waste in the tank. continue to monitor ammonia and nitrite levels and continue to do water changes every few days or as water condition demands. but do not wait longer then a couple days between water changes as the cycle is going.

 

[skjl47]

Hi everyone...I'm in mess right now...i did a 20% water change before i posted here and treated that water with anti-chlorine and water conditioner at proper matching temp before adding it to the tank. aslo added some sodium biphosphate yesterday...a spoon full...and turned on the heater at night as usual...when i woke up this morning...all the water in my tank has turned milky white...i was in shock...hurried up and checked the fishes who were surprisingly OK and swimming about in the water...better then before at least...what should i do for the whiteness of the water...cant change it all so i did a 25% partial change....can anyone help and guide me in this regard...???

Thank you...

Hello; Is the purpose of the sodium biphospahte to try to adjust the pH?
If so, then there are two comments. First is that I believe there is a general feeling that unless the normal pH is very high or very low, that most fish can adjust to and do well as long as the pH is stable. A changing pH is more stressful than a steady pH. Also pH is difficult to adjust, many do not try to change the pH.

It may be that the sodium biphospahate is adding to the cloudiness of the water??

 

[osmanoo]

Thank you exhumed07 and skjl47, yes the cloudiness occurred after the biphosphate addition to the water and it was aimed to adjust the pH. i will no longer play with chemicals now...but can you tell me the expected time it would take to water to become clear again and should i continue a 10-15% water change daily to lower the ammonia level and clear the water as well...the fish are doing fine and unlike before are NOT sitting in the bottom. that is a plus sign i guess... thank you

 

[exhumed07]

keep monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels and keep doing water changes till the levels stay at 0ppm on their own

 

[lauraf]

Do you know what your current ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are? It's important to be able to test the water regularly right now. You need to make sure your water changes are substantial enough. (Once your tank is fully cycled and properly stocked, you shouldn't have to do daily water changes anymore.)

 

[osmanoo]

i dont have any ammonia or nitrate testing kit. things like these are not easily available here...will try to check for one in the pet market tonight...meanwhile my fish are doing good...better then before...water milkiness also seems to be fading out but very slowly...will send you guys current pictures of the tank tonight...Thank you.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; When I started keeping fish the current type of small personal test kits were not around yet. Over a little time and some trial and error I developed a proces for starting up a tank.

While a human nose may not be sensitive enough to pick up very small amounts of ammonia as some have pointed out, it can pick up enough to help. I got into the practice of smelling a tank. Unfortunately I cannot describe how a tank in good condition should smell. I can say that there will be only a slight odor and should not be a sour or unplesant odor.
Without the test kits that so many rely on, you may have to substutite a routine of care. It can take a new setup six weeks or more to grow enough of the needed beneficial bacteria (bb) populations that create an established or cycled tank. For now keep the fish at the current number you have and do not add any more for a time.

If you have any true aquatic plants available they are a useful thing to add to a tank. Live plants help in several ways. Early on they may add some bb to the tank by having colonies on their surfaces from where they had been growing. They produce some oxygen and take up some CO2 under light. They will also take up some of the nitrates which are an end product of the cycling process. Rooted or free floating plants will work, with free floating perhaps being the easier to deal with. I like hornwort.

After the tank is setteled for a couple of weeks with no additional fish deaths and the water seeming to be in good condition, then fish can be added in small numbers. The needed population of bb expands or shrinks to handle the waste from the fish, adding too many fish at one time will upset the balance for a time. I add fish slowly, perhaps one or two at a time, giving a couple of weeks before adding more.

If you get a tank established then to set up a second or third tank becomes much easier as the needed bb can be taken from it.

Perhaps the single biggest issue those new to fish keeping I have observed is feeding too much. Fish need little food and overfeeding will cause some serious problems on it's own. A basic guide is to observe the food and keep cutting back on the amount if it is not eaten in about five minutes. Should the food last fifteen minutes then a day of no feeding should follow.
I usually skip a day or two of feeding each week and do not feed at all. The fish will scour the tank for any uneaten food and the impact of any decaying leftover food will be lessened.

If you have no issues with aquatic snails, I find them a very helpful addition to a tank. They do several good things that i will not go into in this post.
Good luck

 

[osmanoo]

Dear skjl47
Thanx a million...your expert tips have helped me a lot already...the milkiness of my water is almost gone...clear water now...plus the fish are doing fine...swimming around in playful mood...i'm happy to see that... the odor of the ammonia that i used to experience before the last week's water changes is gone now and water seems to nearly balanced now...i added some drops of anti-fungal liquid for aquariums as one of my big orange gold fish was developing black gills possibly due to high ammonia content but after those drops in a few days that blackness has gone away...i will definitely add some live plants to the tank to improve the look and also get the benefits of the plants...will keep you updated...again...thank a lots...you've been so helpful.

 

[osmanoo]

Hi there...
My fish tank seems to be in smooth status now...all the koi's and gold fish are doing fine. happy healthy looking...added some live plants in the tank for the look and the benefits...just one thing...my pleco died yesterday...she was always hugging the glass or the plants or the rocks...but yesterday i saw her drifting with the water...after half an hour or so she was upside down floating on the water...is this because of no food for it...( i dont see any algae built up in my tank so i think she only ate the slimy stuff on the glass )...i want some advice on SHOULD I GET ANOTHER ONE or NOT...? do they eat fish waste too as someone told me once...!!!

 

[skjl47]

Hello; If you get another pleco they can and probably should have some sort of food such as dried plant wafers or fresh vegetable matter. I have fed fish, including plecos, with uncooked canned peas. Most all fish will eat them.
I also have used commercially packaged algae wafers that a pleco ate well. The brand I used was Wardley Algae Discs. I have seen posts on fish forums were members discuss food used for plecos. Perhaps a search will bring up some of those.

Will a pleco or other catfish eat fish waste? That is not clear to me. I do not think that I have ever seen this happen myself. Some fish and animals eat mainly plant material and have an inefficient digestive system. This can mean that they will digest only around half of the food value of the plants they eat. The waste of cattle can be dried out and be burned as fuel. I know of fish that live with hippos and do eat the hippo waste as it has a lot or food value, so as least one kind of fish does.
I had a pleco that ate algae from the tank, food wafers and I believe regular fish food. It would produce long unsightly strings of fecal matter. I do not recall ever seeing it eat this fecal matter. I got tired of cleaning this out and put some rams horn snails. The snails ate the remaining food value out of the pleco waste and I wound up with a lot of snails and a fair amount of snail waste. The snail waste was not so unsightly and was easier to clean.
One extra benefit was that the floating plants in the tank grew especially well and I had a lot of snails that I could feed to my other fish.
Many fish are not plant eaters and need a high protein diet. I do not think that their waste would have much food value left.
If you are asking about plecos eating fish waste in hope that they will help clean up a tank, that is not the way it works out. Plecos are a nasty fish and will add to the detritus of a tank.

Question - What is the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

Answer - One is a manure eating, scum sucking bottom dweller. and the other is a fish
.

 

[osmanoo]

Hello to all my seniors...
with your guidance and support, i believe i have set up a complete cycle and now my fish tank looks great and fish are doing well. i performed a monthly tank cleaning yesterday and also re-modeled the tank interior. took some pics to show my all my friends and seniors for their appreciation and suggestions. hope you people like it.

 

[osmanoo]

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I like the set up you've got with the plants and the cave. Now that you've got everything cleaned up the fish seem to be doing well. It looks like you have a full tank right now since those goldfish are fairly big.