High pH out of tap, Betta at the bottom.

[NullEntropy]

Hello! I'm new here but have been keeping fish on and off since childhood. Right now I have a 5.5g live-planted "nano" tank. This is my first time doing an all-live tank. Today when I got home from work, I couldn't find Hubert Cumberdale (My Betta) at first. Normally he's very active, swimming all over the tank. I finally spotted him near the bottom of the tank, looking like he was pouting. I immediately did a check of the levels, and all my levels are good (all 0 or near-zero) except my pH. It's HIGH. Like 7.6 high. I checked the water out of the tap, and it's coming out at about 7.4 or so. Here's what I have in my tank:

1 Betta, 2 Glowlight Tetra, 1 Neon Tetra, 1 Mystery Snail, and 1 ghost shrimp. The plants I have in my tank are as follows: Anacharis, Swords, Java Fern, Anubias, and "lucky bamboo". I also have a piece of wood (not sure what kind, bought from the lfs). I boiled it for several hours before placing it in the tank, and so far it hasn't really leaked very many tannins into the water. Here are some pictures of my tank so you can get an idea. That's Hubert swimming around happily. Anyone have any ideas on what I can do?

http://root--servers.org/images/IMG_20131013_111804.jpg
http://root--servers.org/images/IMG_20131013_111833.jpg
http://root--servers.org/images/IMG_20131013_111811.jpg

ETA: My temp is at 78, so it's nice and warm.

 

[FishDad]

It could be completely normal behavior. My bettas sometimes will look totally lifeless. But as soon as I tap on the glass they spring back to life. And that's in a community tank, not one of those little cups.

Your PH will likely only be an issue if it changes. Have you ever tested it before? A difference of .2 is fairly normal especially when natural elements are introduced to the aquarium, IMO.

As for your levels, give us the specific readings. Ammonia and Nitrite should be zero, not near zero. If they aren't zero then that could be the source. Your nitrate won't be zero, so we need to know that specific reading too.

How long has this tank been set up? What is the frequency and volume of water changes?

 

[NullEntropy]

It could be completely normal behavior. My bettas sometimes will look totally lifeless. But as soon as I tap on the glass they spring back to life. And that's in a community tank, not one of those little cups.

Your PH will likely only be an issue if it changes. Have you ever tested it before? A difference of .2 is fairly normal especially when natural elements are introduced to the aquarium, IMO.

As for your levels, give us the specific readings. Ammonia and Nitrite should be zero, not near zero. If they aren't zero then that could be the source. Your nitrate won't be zero, so we need to know that specific reading too.

How long has this tank been set up? What is the frequency and volume of water changes?

Ammonia is in between 0 and 0.25, closer to 0. Nitrites are 0, and Nitrates are about 2.5 (in between 0 and 5, so i'm guessing it's 2.5). I've had the tank setup for about 2 months. Having done these small tanks before I usually have success with no water changes and just refilling from evap. I recently switched the substrate from gravel to eco-complete. When I changed out the substrate I did about a 25% water change. Previously I was refilling/conditioning about once a week, so 10% once a week. My levels have always been good except for the pH being high. This is the only time I've seen the him do anything like this before.

 

[FishDad]

Well you may have a few issues going on here. Its possible you triggered a mini cycle by switching the substrate and removing some of the nitrifying bacteria resulting in the presence of unprocessed ammonia. That means you will also likely see nitrites in the not to distant future. As for your nitrates, something is not adding up. If you only add water and not physically remove it then your nitrates should be through the roof. I'm almost certain they don't evap. Unless you have a serious anaerobic bacteria colony in your tank, your nitrates concentrate as the water evaporates. I personally would question the accuracy of that test.

You would have a much healthier tank with regular water changes. I do 50% on my freshwater tanks every week.

I really don't think your Ph is the issue. 7.4 is not that high.

You say your levels have always been good... have you always shown some ammonia? And what is you tank ph normally?

 

[NullEntropy]

Well you may have a few issues going on here. Its possible you triggered a mini cycle by switching the substrate and removing some of the nitrifying bacteria resulting in the presence of unprocessed ammonia. That means you will also likely see nitrites in the not to distant future. As for your nitrates, something is not adding up. If you only add water and not physically remove it then your nitrates should be through the roof. I'm almost certain they don't evap. Unless you have a serious anaerobic bacteria colony in your tank, your nitrates concentrate as the water evaporates. I personally would question the accuracy of that test.

You would have a much healthier tank with regular water changes. I do 50% on my freshwater tanks every week.

I really don't think your Ph is the issue. 7.4 is not that high.

You say your levels have always been good... have you always shown some ammonia? And what is you tank ph normally?

Usually the Ammonia is 0, and the pH has been around 7.4 or so but now it's 7.6 or 7.8. When I switched out the substrate I used the same water from the other tank, and the eco-complete which is supposedly cycled so as to avoid an entire new cycle. The test I'm using is a liquid master kit. I can run the Nitrate test again if you think it's inaccurate. Previoulsy when doing these small tanks I've had success with great levels without doing constant water changes, and have found doing them too frequently caused issues. I don't know if this is just a fluke thing or if it's the type of filtration media (I use a box filter). Should I redo the Nitrate?

 

[FishDad]

That prepackaged live substrate is considered by many to be bunk. Your still going to have a cycle. That is also the likely culprit to you rise in ph. I would redo the nitrate test, since that is the most touchy one of the kit.

Large water changes are better. If your having issues with water changes it will be from temperature or improper water conditioning. I could change out 90% of my 55 gallon right now and not upset the tank one bit.

 

[NullEntropy]

That prepackaged live substrate is considered by many to be bunk. Your still going to have a cycle. That is also the likely culprit to you rise in ph. I would redo the nitrate test, since that is the most touchy one of the kit.

Large water changes are better. If your having issues with water changes it will be from temperature or improper water conditioning. I could change out 90% of my 55 gallon right now and not upset the tank one bit.

Grrrr... don't know how much stock to put in my LFS now. They recommended it to me in order to avoid the cycle. You were TOTALLY right about my nitrate being wrong. I realized I did the chemicals backwards. *facepalm*. It looks like my Nitrate is around 30 or 40: http://root--servers.org/images/IMG_20131014_224646.jpg.

 

[OrangeCones]

Having done these small tanks before I usually have success with no water changes and just refilling from evap.

A lot of live plants growing fast may keep nitrates down, but I personally would not run the risk of no water changes. You say you have done this type of fishkeeping before? How long did the tank or tanks stay healthy?

 

[NullEntropy]

A lot of live plants growing fast may keep nitrates down, but I personally would not run the risk of no water changes. You say you have done this type of fishkeeping before? How long did the tank or tanks stay healthy?

Years. I had a 5.5.g tank with GloFish and a Betta and did the same kind of thing, and the tank was healthy for several years. When I moved out to go to college in another state, I had to rehome the fish because I couldn't take them on the 12 hour drive. I had brought them to my LFS where I used to work and they were put in the community display tank (no fish in that tank are for sale), and when I went back the next summer they were still alive. Obviously I check levels regularly and if the ammonia is up I do water changed.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Null, I'm no expert on this, but there's no way just topping up your tank with fresh, dechlorinated water will give you long-term fish keeping success. Liquid and solid waste products will build-up and have to be physically removed. A lot of tetras can live 6 years I'm told, but that's with regular water changes and good care.

I also wouldn't do what you've done with the glowlites and neons. You need larger groups of those fish for them to live and act normally. You're betta could be getting stressed out from abnormal behavior from the tetras.

I also wouldn't consider a 7.6pH as high. That's normal for city tap water in my area. The main thing with pH is it remains constant. Trying to adjust it and having it swing all over the place can kill fish. Fish will adjust to what you have in terms of pH.

 

[NullEntropy]

Null, I'm no expert on this, but there's no way just topping up your tank with fresh, dechlorinated water will give you long-term fish keeping success. Liquid and solid waste products will build-up and have to be physically removed. A lot of tetras can live 6 years I'm told, but that's with regular water changes and good care.

I also wouldn't do what you've done with the glowlites and neons. You need larger groups of those fish for them to live and act normally. You're betta could be getting stressed out from abnormal behavior from the tetras.

I also wouldn't consider a 7.6pH as high. That's normal for city tap water in my area. The main thing with pH is it remains constant. Trying to adjust it and having it swing all over the place can kill fish. Fish will adjust to what you have in terms of pH.

When initially cycling the tank I had a few neons that didn't make it, and the Betta and he was used to them being the way they are. Would you recommend I add a couple more glowlights or neons? If so, which?

 

[FishDad]

Well wait until your mini cycle is through, and also understand that more fish = heavier bio load = bigger water changes. No way of getting around that.

 

[FreshyFresh]

When initially cycling the tank I had a few neons that didn't make it, and the Betta and he was used to them being the way they are. Would you recommend I add a couple more glowlights or neons? If so, which?

I wouldn't add any more because of the lack of space. IMO, ideally, you'd have something like a 20g long, and have 6-8ea of the tetras. I would just keep the betta by himself in something around 5g.

 

[FishDad]

I couldn't find Hubert Cumberdale (My Betta) at first. Normally he's very active, swimming all over the tank. I finally spotted him near the bottom of the tank, looking like he was pouting.

This probably isn't very helpful, but... a pouty betta fish named Hubert Cumberdale sounds like a character from a British children's cartoon.

 

[Thyra]

I successfully kept a betta and two otos in a 2.5g tank in the kitchen for a long time, but finally decided the small tank needed too much maintenance - the amount of kitchen light caused the algae to grow constantly - the fish were moved to one of my larger tanks.