I could use your advice

[rickg]

Hi,


A couple of weeks ago we decided to upgrade from our 10 gallon semi-agresive starter tank to a 29g african chiclid tank. After doing some research and visiting some of the more reputable pet stores we settled on a 100w theo hydor heater and a topfin 40 filter. i've rigged up a bubble wall for some oxygen and some crazy white rock w/ a bunch of little holes that the fish can swim thru and disrupt their line of site (so they don't nip each other as much) that was recommended by a few people and the fish seem to really like it. i've also got some bamboo sticks and a fake tree trunk thats really cool. long story short the tank looks really nice and all. we bought 7 assorted chilids 3 eledtric blue johannas two cool yellow ones whos bellys turn light blue as they mature and 2 other smaller chiclids. the tank has been up and running for about three weeks and i've only lost one fish so far(but he was always a little weird) the others seem ok. when can i add more fish and how many and what the heck does cycling mean? any advice is apprciated. I love my new hobby and have so many questions

 

[BlueStraggler]

uh-oh you will probaly run into problems.
Luckily you came to the right place for information.
There are lots of stickies and helpful links you can read here on MFT including how to cycle your tank which basically means establishing the bio-load.
This process takes anywhere from a few weeks to a few months.
Having the right conditions is beneficial to the fish you keep and prevents death from ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
It is well worth it to seek out these threads and read them.

 

[Orion]

If you could post photo's of your fish, people on here could help in IDing them. But it sounds for the most part that you've bought Mbuna. And a 29 gallon tank isn't going to suit them long term. You won't be doing your fish any favors by adding more fish at this point.

 

[SinisterKisses]

Yep, I'm afraid a 29gal tank is not very useful when it comes to African mbuna. There are very, very few species that MIGHT be okay in it long-term - and that all depends on the length. Is it a 36" long tank?

 

[rickg]

a little more info

ok here it is 3 electri blue johanni Colorful tropical fish pictures,Melanochromis johanni, Johann's Mbuna ,2 zebra cichlids (mine look like the 2nd pic from the bottom) Colorful tropical fish pictures, Zebra Cichlid, Pseudotropheus Zebra,Maylandia Zebra ,and now only 1 of these guys http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/cichlids/labidochromis.htmls . i hope this helps...

ammonia = 2.0
nitrite = 0.5
nitrate = 10.0
ph = 7.8

charlie my reputable fish guy (apparantley everyone around here considers him an expert) told me not to worry that these levels are all gonna drop except for the nitrates but it'll take time like a stew. that it's best not to mess with it too much by adding ammo lock and all those bacteria supplement things and to not do water changes until after the first cycle also when i can safely add more tank dwellers. however after my ammonia spiked at 0ver 4.0 yeterday and ilost a blue johanni he recommened feeding them 30% less and doing a 25% water change w/o doing the gravel or changing the (original) filter. he says this will dilute the levels w/o disrupting the cylce too much. what do u guys think?

 

[rickg]

my buddy's got 2 identical to mine w/ africans and they seem to be fine. they love those crazy white rocks w/ all the holes supposedly the more u have w/o over crowding (using the 1" p/g ratonal) the better they do. my fish guy seems to think they lose focus quick when being territorial and another fish comes across their field of vision.
my tank is 29 g 30" long, 12" wide, and 18.5" deep

 

[rickg]

a little more info

ok here it is 3 electri blue johanni Colorful tropical fish pictures,Melanochromis johanni, Johann's Mbuna ,2 zebra cichlids (mine look like the 2nd pic from the bottom) Colorful tropical fish pictures, Zebra Cichlid, Pseudotropheus Zebra,Maylandia Zebra ,and now only 1 of these guys http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/cichlids/labidochromis.htmls . i hope this helps...

ammonia = 2.0
nitrite = 0.5
nitrate = 10.0
ph = 7.8

charlie my reputable fish guy (apparantley everyone around here considers him an expert) told me not to worry that these levels are all gonna drop except for the nitrates but it'll take time like a stew. that it's best not to mess with it too much by adding ammo lock and all those bacteria supplement things and to not do water changes until after the first cycle also when i can safely add more tank dwellers. however after my ammonia spiked at 0ver 4.0 yeterday and ilost a blue johanni he recommened feeding them 30% less and doing a 25% water change w/o doing the gravel or changing the (original) filter. he says this will dilute the levels w/o disrupting the cylce too much. what do u guys think?

 

[Orion]

Your doing a fish in cycle. The fish are dying because of the high ammonia levels, and the only way to keep them from dying is to do water changes to keep the levels from getting too toxic. This will slow down the cycle, but it will be less harmful to the fish. Your fish guy is right about not changing the filter media if you can help it, but vacuuming the gravel isn't going to harm anything.

Yes, it is a common practice with mbuna to do a controlled overstock to help keep the aggression down some. But a very important factor in controlled overstocking is that you have the room for the fish to start with, and you don't. A 29 gallon is going to be enough room for just a few fish that are on the docile side, much less anything that would need controlled overstocking. You won't have enough room for any type of territories for the fish you have when they become adults, so you can't add any more.

The 1 inch per gallon guidline does not apply to mbuna. They don't apply to just about any cichlid. This only really comes into play for most common community fish.

Basically it comes down to your cycling a tank with fish that aren't suitable for it and you are going to have problems. If you do make it though the cycle, more than likely what will play out is that a single fish is going to become dominate and kill the rest of the fish because in that size tank you just can't provide enough cover.

The white rock is a type of limestone typically referred too as Texas Holey Rock.

 

[rickg]

sounds like a fairly easy fix and an excuse for me to start up another tank... properlythis time. so what size should i get that would be suitable for cichlids? hopefully they'll survive til the new one cycles and also what size filters etc. will i need for a larger tank. then the question will be what to do w/ this 29 gallon? hmmm.... mayb some very colorfull fish that will flurish in my 29? i'll take any suggestions as u guys all seem to be fairly knowledable

 

[jo3olous]

If you like the kind of fish you have now, to continue stocking I would recommend at least a 75G ... 100 would be optimal cuz it sounds like you want to have lots more fish

 

[Orion]

If you want to stick with Mbuna, I would suggest doing as much reading on this group of cichlids as you can. It's not as simple as just tossing tetra's in a tank and everything will be OK, but with a little proper setup and thought before you stock the tank, you will be greatly rewarded for years to come.

A 55 gallon would be absolute minimum for a group of mbuna. If you have the space/funds for larger I would go for it. For these guys you want a tank with as much footprint as you can get, height is not that important.

As for a filter, it will depend on how many fish you want to have. The more fish, the more filtration you'll need on the tank. The mbuna might be small now, but several species will get 4-6 inches. Probably two quality HOB filters or a canister filter would probably be OK.

 

[rickg]

i think the 100g is a little extreme for me at the moment. so i'm gonna pick up a 75 gallon any recomendations as far as filters and what how big of a heater will i needand will i need to get those under gravel filters? also what should i stock in my 29 that won't out grow it and aren't so territorial

 

[rickg]

ha i guess i posted before reading all the responses thanks again. as far as pics as soon as i figure it out i'll give u guys a look. i hope people think they are as nice as i do