I feel like i'm doing a science lab project

[Fishywishy]

I've never killed so many fish or had so many problems as I've had in the past month trying to do a fish tank for my 6 year old son.

I picked up one of those 2.5 gal tanks at the local store (non pet), grabbed some fish (3 tiger barbs), put water in, put water conditioner in, stuck the fish in the tank. at day one they were fine, day 2 they were fine, day 2.5 they were fine (acting normal) day 2.6 the water was brown and the fish were floating at the top. ( i blamed the kids) (the amount that the fish seller recommened for my tank btw)

So, I clean out the tank (yes I know it's small) and I get 3 more tiger barbs (I like these fish). Day 3, they're floating.

So, I clean out the tank go to Petsmart, ask questions. Get all this "expert" advice (I'm gonna guess they were paid minimum wage for the "expert" advice I got) and managed to bring home 3 tetra's and an african frog. They assured me this wasn't too much for the tank. (by the way, they talked me into a small heater as well). Needless to say noone mentioned cycling.

So, day 3 the fish and the frog are "seeing the light". So, I start doing research and found myself here.

From the real experts, I found that I had about 4 fish to many on the last try. That the 2.5 gal tank is really good for a hermit crab (maybe). And this whole water testing/cycling thing, wow this is new, I don't remember doing all this 20 years ago when I used to help clean and care a specially made 350 salt water tank (not to mention all the little freshwater tanks they had)

to sort my problems (I've still got a 6 year old who "wishes for fishes" and is in tears over "bob" the frog), I went to walmart and bought one of those start up 10 gal tanks (not sure if this is going to big enough......but wasn't sure I really wanted to invest in anything larger) I bought heater big enough, undergravel filter, big air pump, (filter and hood came w/tank). The only type of fish this store had for sale was a betta...so I grabbed one of those (for cycling....figured it could live in it's potato salad container for a little while, while I got everything running). I also bought ammonia test kit, a 5 in 1 test kit (tests nitrate,nitrite,hardness/alkalinity and ph), water conditioner to remove hard metals, chlorine and chlorimines), a bottle of "stress coat" which also removes chlorine and chlorimines and puts on a coating, and one of those bacteria cylce starters.

The betta (i've been calling it alpha) has made it past the three day mark. However, I tested the water this morning and the ammonia water was getting to a stressful lvl and the ph was hitting the alkaline area. I also noticed this string like thing hanging on the betta gill area. So, went to the petstore, got this ph balancer (supposed to balance ph whether it's high or low) and removes ammonia, chlorine and chlorimes. I also picked up some parasite clear medicine.

Tested the water, clear of ammonia and all the other stats in the 5 in 1 test are right where they should be. And, alpha looks healthier and happier then when I bought him.

Ok, my questions, if you can stand to respond after killing all those fish

1. The water is cloudy. White cloudy not brown. I'm gonna assume maybe I've put a few too many chemicals in trying to balance and then the parasite medicine (it was a fizz tab thingy) Figuring it's the 3 day of a new tank, I was going to do a partial water change like about 20% (2 or 3 inches of 10 gal tank). Do you think this will clear it up?

2. Have I started then killed the "cycle"?? am I basically starting over?

3. I would like to eventually get a "Bob2" (african frog) and was wondering how many of what kinds of other fish can this tank hold (give me some suggestions of pretty but easier care fish) (Please don't tell me that's all a 10 gal tank can hold) I'm going to eventually move the betta into the 2.5gal tank....and say a little prayer

4. Any other suggestions??? I really am not a fisherman, I don't like killing fish. I've probably overdone it with the chemicals, but I'm so worried, I've spent the last two days non stop checking this tank. I think I've used over 15 of each of the different test strips I have. I really do feel like with the bottles and test strips and different containers that I'm like a mad scientist, trying to prove that I can keep a fish alive in water!

thanks so much in advance for any help you can give me

 

[hyunelan2]

I'll answer what I can

1. The white cloudiness in water is normal "new tank syndrome". It is a bloom of bacteria in the water. It will clear up as things stabilize. As the Ammonia and Nitrates spike, there will be a spike in bacteria after them - which is what you're seeing.

2. No, the cycle is probably going fine - be patient. It can sometimes take months for a cycle to complete.

3. I recommend Zebra Danios. They are hardy, cheap, small, active and playful. Perfect for a 10g tank + frog.

4. Just be patient. Levels aren't going to change instantly. It is a very slow and gradual process to getting the tank to equilibrium. Too-much tank care is just as bad as too-little. Good luck.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Welcome to the site by the way! You aren't the first newbie fish keeper...I promise.

Ok so I need some clarification here....Is the betta still in the cup? Or is it in the tank now? Or are you fishless cycling the tank?

Do you still have the 2.5g tank? If so, are there any fish in it? If there are no fish in the 2.5g tank, that could be the bettas new home. It is alot better than the cup.

Now for your questions:
1. The cloudy water could be caused by the tank cycling and the bacterial colony building up (known as a "bacterial bloom") or from the parasite meds. I have used the fizz tabs before and they can cause cloudiness. With either one, it will go away on its own. I wouldn't add any more chemicals to the water though. Don't worry about the pH....a stable pH is better than the "right" pH, so I wouldn't try to adjust it. When the parasites are gone, stop the treatment. And only add water conditioner when you do the water changes.

2. As long as you haven't used alot of antibiotics or done a very thorough gravel vac, you haven't killed the bacteria or restarted the cycle. You are still good to go!
If the water gets extremely cloudy and the ammonia or nitrIte is up, then I'd do a small water change.

3. I would get a school of small tetras or rasboras to go in the 10g. Harlequin rasboras, glowlight tetras, cardinal tetras, black neons, and flame tetras are all schooling fish that would do well with a betta (and eventually a frog). I would get 6 of one type. Neon tetras are ok, though they can be fairly weak and sensitive. I would hate for you to buy a school and they all die (and sometimes for no reason) since you've already had some deaths. I'd personally stay away from them.
I think with the betta, African Dwarf Frog, and 6 tetras or rasboras, you'll be fully stocked.

A little word about ADF's. Make sure you get the dwarf frog. They do not come in albino and their feet are webbed.
This site has good info on ADFs. Scroll down a bit for the dwarf part. Make sure you are looking at the Dwarf ones though....not clawed. They should be fed frozen food...like frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp. They can sometimes be hard to feed in community tanks (or so I've heard) because they usually won't search for food, so you have to be extra careful to make sure that they eat.

Definitely check the water once a day. If the levels (ammonia or nitrIte) get above 1ppm, I'd do a small water change (about 20%). Other than that, be patient. You will be much happier after the tank has cycled and you add fish that will thrive.

I wouldn't listen to the advice given by the LFS either....Tiger barbs shouldn't even be kept in 10g tanks.

Also, liquid test kits can be more accurate than the strips....but you've already bought the strips so I think it will be ok if you keep using them. If you run out though, get a liquid kit. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes a great master kit that comes with all the basic tests you need.

Don't give up! You are doing great already by coming here and asking for advice!

 

[GeraldTheMouse]

'African frog' isn't really helpful. The african dwarf frog is fine for your set up, but the african clawed frog gets big and mean.

 

[amystours]

Ditto about the African Clawed Frog....found out about him the hard way. Sorry you had to go through all this the way you did, with no help.

Hate to hear you had a bad experience at PetSmart, well, Wal-Mart too, for that matter. Lots of folks on here despise PS and WM, but we're not all bad, promise!

Better luck with your fishies (and amphibians) this go-round.

Your buddy Alpha will probably enjoy the 2.5 gallon much better than the potato salad container thingy, but I found those are convenient while you are cleaning tanks or doing transfers, so I tend to hang on to them.

 

[Fishywishy]

I did put the betta (Alpha) into the 10g tank after setting it up, for now, to start/do a natural fish cycle. The good news is, I'm pretty sure this forum and all the links have put me on the right path because not only is it still alive, but it is looking much much healthier then when I bought it. I did do a 25% water change (there abouts....i put in 2 1/2 gal.) The water has begun to clear up, I can see the other side of the tank. (it was still cloudy after the change but it started clearing up on it's own like you said) The stick tests show everything right where it should be. There is no hangy thing off the betta anymore and it is swimming around quite happily right now. It's colors have really become quite beautiful in just the past few hours

As far as the african frog, it was definitely the the dwarf and not the clawed. (sorry I'm bad with names and could only remember african and that it was a frog) I had a female as well (i was reading about it on the website earlier, glad I read that.....nobody at the petstore told me it would jump out of the tank). And, actually, before it died, I was taking the frozen blood worms sticking them on a plastic knife and putting them on the bottom, then using the soft end of the knife to kinda scare the frog over in front of the food because I was worried that it wasn't eating. (blood worms are disgusting btw!!) I did do something right in all of this!!!

My plans are with the 2.5 gal tank, I'm currently trying to do a fishless cycle to get it ready for the betta that is currently in the 10gal tank.... From what I've read the bettas may or may not get along with the ADF, dependent on how territorial the betta is. I'd rather be safe then sorry. The 2.5 gal tank can only handle 1 fish tops, and i've seen those betta in much smaller unfiltered water so this should make a nice home for it.....I hope If it doesn't do well in the small (lonely) 2.5 gal tank, I will put it back in the 10gal tank and hope it gets along with the ADF.

most importantly, my son hugged his fish today, so proud that it was still alive. Of course, he took all the credit for feeding it properly and washing his hands before feeding it!!

now on to researching the fish mentioned.......cuz i really only want to add one or two at a time while I'm still new and figuring all this stuff out ( i really don't want to kill anymore fish, I feel guilty as it is!!)

words can't describe how appreicative I am for your advice, suggestions, and help. I've stopped messing with the tank, I'm down to testing the water 3 times a day (instead of every hour). I'm not going to add anything unless the ammonia or nitrites (nitrates??) get too high (i'm really bad with names LOL) I'm starting to feel a bit more confident that I'm not going to kill Alpha!! Thank you, Thank you, thank you!!!!!!
*PEACE!*

 

[JustOneMore20]

Looks like things are doing alot better now!

Here are some articles to read on the Nitrogen cycle. Might help ya get the nitrate and nitrite thing straight...I know its confusing.
Tropical Fish Centre - The Nitrogen Cycle
Beginner FAQ: The Nitrogen Cycle

Oh and yes...bloodworms are disgusting!

Show us some pictures of Alpha if you can, when the water clears up more....we like pictures.