I need your help!

[toodles]

I have a 20g (standard) that is heavily planted and right now contains a bunch of tetras. What I want to do is take the tetras out and put something else in there. I like cichlids, like their behavior but I'm looking for something that will stay small enough for a 20, leave the plants alone, one that will not dig, will be good in a pH of 7.4, and I do not want angels or rams......I've had them both in the past, (actually I recently lost my 5yr old pair of marble angels and my 2 1/2 yr old blue rams).....I would like to try something different.
Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Paul]

Try Keyhole Cichlids. Max size 3 inches, peaceful, don't bother plants. Although they do dig a bit, but most cichlids dig to some extent. I have 3 and they are active and very owner responsive after they get used to your presents. An excellent beginner cichlids. I highly reccommend them.

 

[colesea]

Kribs are also a nice cichlid. An African fish from the Zarie (aka Congo) delta, not a Rift species..
~~Colesea

 

[SoulFish]

if you do your water change in a 5 gallon bucket, you could use the recipe 1 Tbsp Instant Ocean, 1 tsp baking soda, 1 tsp epsom salts per 5 gallons of water, and make it an african cichlid tank with a pair of smaller julidochromis

 

[Paul]

Or a whole colony of shell dwellers. For that matter a Pair of Altolamprologus calvus would do nicely in a 20gal.

 

[toodles]

Thanks for the suggestions!

One thing that concerns me is won't the salt kill the plants? I have in there, anubias, java fern, java moss, various crypts, dwarf water lily and another plant whose name I can never remember.

The kribs sound like a good idea, and if I remember correctly (I hope ) they are rather peaceful so leaving a couple of the tetras in there as dithers would work out.

Then again, I like the julies, always have, and shell dwellers are downright fascinating........

I guess it all boils down to the salt and plant thing. What do you think?

 

[SoulFish]

Or a whole colony of shell dwellers. For that matter a Pair of Altolamprologus calvus would do nicely in a 20gal.

shell dwellers would need sand
and calvus need a much bigger tank then a 20
there are altolamp sumbu dwarfs that only get about 2 inches and shelldwell, sand would still be best though

 

[Paul]

your planst will be fine with the salt added to your tank water, as long as it's aquarium salt and not sea salt such as Instant Ocean. Shell dwellers might like sand but it's not a requirement. My N. Multifasciatus have gotten along just fine with out it for 4 years.

 

[SoulFish]

they can live without sand, but they are much more comfortable with it, they like to dig around there territories

 

[wayne]

You could try small south americans like apistogramma, or small west africans like kribs. These won't involve messing around with water chemistry. You could also try small central americans like sajica, but they are a bit more likely to dig.
If you get rift lake cichlids, most malawis are out in a 20. The shell dwelling neolamprologus, or small julies mentioned above are all nice fish . You don't need to add salt (aquarium or sea, there's no difference- it doesn't 'simulate' raising hardness, and may be a cause of malawi bloat (separate discussion)). If you decide to keep this fish and raise carbonate hardnesswith baking soda or an african lake mix, you MAY have problems with getting CO2 to your plants, and CO2 injection will be right out (you'll cause pH swings). Hard water and plants can be a battle as well. It's your decision, but I'd probably go Apisto.

 

[toodles]

After thinking about this, I believe I will go with kribs. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions!
I *believe* that you should keep dithers with kribs....is this correct? Would a school of lemon tetras work?
I'm going to have to thin out the plants in this tank a bit, catch the fish I'm not going to keep (not looking forward to that!).
Sexual differences.....uh, don't the females have red on their belly?

 

[Somonas]

Yeah, I don't exactly agree with using 1 tbsp / 5 gal of instant ocean... even 1 tbsp / 5 gal is a fair amount of salt for a tank that is not being medicated (ich etc).

I would save yourself some money and just go with 1 tsp / 5gal of ordinary salt (water softener salt etc). or not even bother with it at all.

 

[Hazzamaya]

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why not have African dwarf frogs?

 

[SoulFish]

somonas that defeats the purpose of adding teh instant ocean, the salt is added for trace elements, and it is a little amount even for a medicated tank

 

[Karkadannspiral]

Ive heard some male kribs have a faint touch of red on their bellies, but in the two males I have, they dont show it, only the females. Id say the main thing to look for is the dorsal and tail fins though. On the male's dorsal fin there is a line of yellow/orange that extends all the way to the tip, which is also pointed. Allong the top of the tail as well, there is a more noticable line of that color. In the female the dorsal fin is rounded at the end, and the color can almoast reach, but it doesnt.
Be careful to get a pair as well, 2 males or 2 females will try to kill each other, as I found out the hard way.
Also, I dont know if mine were a special case, but in the first pair I finally got, the female was a moody fish, and tried to kill the second male as well. I ended up getting 2 pairs and letting two pair off, and removing the two 'loosing' fish to the community tank. This is in a 10gal however, so with an aquarium twice the size they might learn to get allong as the two in the community tank eventually did.
Theres also two little regular dianos that keep insisting on spawning *every* day in the tiny patch of java moss. The kribs will sometimes have a go at em, but I have yet to see any dammage.
Good luck with your fish.

 

[Paul]

Instant ocean has spefic buffers for saltwater tanks . What your talking about is aquarium salt made by Dr.Wellfish. Water softner and regular table salt is a no no because table salt and water softerner salt has anti caking agents and buffers in them that could harm your fish. Now that being said Instant ocean would work best for the kribs because they are brackish water fish. I don't remember the spific gravity that kribs thrive in, but I'm pretty sure that you could find that info on the web.

 

[SoulFish]

the recipe i was talking about is not suited for kribs, its for rift lake cichlids, it raises kh gh and ph and adds trace elements, kribs are riverine cichlids and which is more like the amazon then the rift lakes, soft water with lots of plant matter

 

[toodles]

That's why I am going with the kribs, so I don't have to mess with the water chemistry. I already have 2 salt tanks and frankly, I don't want to have to be worried about the water in this tank too. That's one of the reasons I like my freshwater tanks so much, they don't require the same amount of attention that the salt tanks do.
At least now I know how to sex the fish, that they'll be fine with the lemon tetras and that they shouldn't mess with the plants.....seems like they should work out just fine! I'll be going out this weekend to start looking for some nice fish. Thanks again to everyone for their help!!!