I was sooo patient......

BalaShark

Large Fish
Dec 5, 2005
171
0
0
#1
My 30g has been up for 3 months, live rock & sand, some shrimp, hermits, snails and 2 damsels, every one happy, including the levels. I even have a happy anemone now for 3 weeks and a little purple sea slug.

So we decide, let's take out the damsels, everything looks good and put in a tang. Next morning (today) tang and slug dead........................

Now what :confused:

I did have to remove the live rock yesterday in order to catch the damsels, but put it straight back in again. This of course made the tank a bit messy for a while, but nothing serious? The acclimation I had to stop after the first additiion of my own water to the bag, because there was a leak in the bag, and the tang was getting claustrophobih, and was gasping for air. First of all, I feel bad about loosing fish, I feel like a bad father today :(

Any suggestions or questions? Should I try something smaller first, a blenny or goby instead of a large tang?

Thanks
Tony
 

aresgod

Superstar Fish
Jan 14, 2004
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#2
you should not be putting a tang in a 30 gallon, nor keeping an anemone, nor cycle with damsels...I am sorry you lost a fish but am honestly not surprised...you should do some serious reading and research before you go any further.
 

BalaShark

Large Fish
Dec 5, 2005
171
0
0
#3
aresgod said:
you should not be putting a tang in a 30 gallon, nor keeping an anemone, nor cycle with damsels...I am sorry you lost a fish but am honestly not surprised...you should do some serious reading and research before you go any further.
Hi Aresgod
First of all, thank you for replying. Here's some additional information
Stupid LFS once again :mad: I am really getting pissed of now. What you say about reading is true, and I have spend many a hours doing that, but unfortunately, I also believed the mom and pop LFS we have here. Yep, I am also sorry about loosing the fish, pretty sad actually. Now, I don't know anymore. The tank has cycled, and I do my water checks pretty much everyday, and have seen the ammonia spike, and it has gone done again. I was certain that if the damsels would live, the tang would do well. So much for thinking I guess......

What would my next step be please? Put 2 small damsels in again, or 2 pecular clowns?
 

Fuzz16

Superstar Fish
Oct 20, 2006
1,918
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Wellsville, KS
#4
what are your parameters?
are you sure your tank is even cycled?

until you know i probably wouldnt add anymore fish.
and why would you get damsels unless you kept them long term? what did you plan on doing with them after you didnt need them?
 

Lotus

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
Aug 26, 2003
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#6
It's often easier to acclimate fish in a bucket or container. The plastic bags should be floated for temperature equalization, but as those bags often tip over or break.

No tang should be in a 30g tank, I'm surprised your research didn't lead you to that conclusion.

What are your stocking plans for this tank? Clowns may not be the best first addition if you're planning on more timid species.
 

ram man

Superstar Fish
Apr 16, 2005
1,441
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Arizona
#7
1. shouldnt have had a tang in a 30 gallon
2. should have done a fishless cycle
3. do your own research and not listen to the lfs.
4.how did you aclimate the tang?
5. shouldnt have had an anemone

And instead of putting fish in right away and watching them die or be in a bad state of health, wait it out, wait until you know for sure your tank is stable and ready for fish.
 

TRe

Elite Fish
Feb 20, 2005
3,645
1
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ft. lauderdale
#8
dont try another tang , dont get more damsels, and if you plan on keeping many other fish besides the clowns do your research and get the least aggressive first ;) .... also next time try to acclimate better and dont be so worried about the fish be claustrophobic
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
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NE Indiana
#9
Well there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said already. Learn by your mistakes and don't repeat them. Don't add any livestock until you research them, their needs and their dietary habits. As you learned not all lfs' are accurate in their advice....even the ones who are sounding helpful can misguide you.
 

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
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Cape Cod
#10
Tangs also don't do well with low oxygen levels... which may have happened in the bag during acclimation. Not that it really matters now, since hopefully you won't be getting another tang...
 

TheFool

Large Fish
Apr 19, 2006
323
2
0
#11
Well the damage is done now, and hopefully the lessons are learnt.

My next step would be to do nothing. I would let the tank get back in balance a little, and make a list of fish I was interested in, and research them a bit before doing any more shopping. Then check out the levels before going for it. I'm not savvy with the history of this tank, is there a thread - is there live rock, a skimmer?

Are the shops round you any good, or is it a bit 'barren'?
 

BalaShark

Large Fish
Dec 5, 2005
171
0
0
#12
what are your parameters?
Ammonia=0.1
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=0
Sg=1.023
are you sure your tank is even cycled?
until you know i probably wouldnt add anymore fish.
Yes, I monitor my tanks daily and graph the results in MSExcel. I have seen the Ammonia and Nitrate spike and it's gone down again. That's when I added the damsels.

and why would you get damsels unless you kept them long term? what did you plan on doing with them after you didnt need them?
The LFS takes the damsels back for 75% of the original price.

From a freshwater guy's view, the heavy breathing screams something like pH shock to me...or something along the lines of water params not being the same. Were the water params in the bag (LFS water) and your tank the same?
My PH was 8~8.4. Didn't check the parms from the bag.

It's often easier to acclimate fish in a bucket or container. The plastic bags should be floated for temperature equalization, but as those bags often tip over or break.
Will follow the bucket advise from now.

No tang should be in a 30g tank, I'm surprised your research didn't lead you to that conclusion.
I don't know whom to believe anymore.:(
What are your stocking plans for this tank? Clowns may not be the best first addition if you're planning on more timid species.
Planning on 2 clowns, 2 blenny's/ goby's, some clean-up critters, a seastar. Some coral / mushrooms.

1. shouldnt have had a tang in a 30 gallon
Well, I know that now.
2. should have done a fishless cycle
I did. Just LR and LS.
3. do your own research and not listen to the lfs.
So who do you listen to? Somebody should be able to give reasonable answers. If not listening to the lfs, why should I believe books, or anything else as a matter of fact?
4.how did you aclimate the tang?
15 Minutes to acclimate the temperature, The acclimation I had to stop after the first addition of my own water to the bag, because there was a leak in the bag, and the tang was getting claustrophobic.
5. shouldnt have had an anemone
Why not?

and if you plan on keeping many other fish besides the clowns
How much is many other fish? It's only a 30G, not enough space for more then 4 small fish, according my research.

also next time try to acclimate better and dont be so worried about the fish be claustrophobic
I told you the bag broke. It was not by choice that I took the tang out prematurely.

Well there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said already. Learn by your mistakes and don't repeat them. Don't add any livestock until you research them, their needs and their dietary habits. As you learned not all lfs' are accurate in their advice....even the ones who are sounding helpful can misguide you.
Thank you Lorna, finally some-one who reads before replying.

Tangs also don't do well with low oxygen levels... which may have happened in the bag during acclimation.
Thank you, I was not aware of tha.
Not that it really matters now, since hopefully you won't be getting another tang.
*thumbsups Nope, most certainly not.

Well the damage is done now, and hopefully the lessons are learnt.
**thumbsup2

My next step would be to do nothing. I would let the tank get back in balance a little, and make a list of fish I was interested in, and research them a bit before doing any more shopping.
Yeah, and let the pissy mood settle.......

Then check out the levels before going for it. I'm not savvy with the history of this tank, is there a thread - is there live rock, a skimmer?
No, not really. 30G, 135W Coralife lights, Fluval filter, P Skimmer, LR (30lb) and 1 4" live sand substrate. 10 or so snails and hermits, 2 100W heaters, temp = 80degF

Are the shops round you any good, or is it a bit 'barren'?
Barren is a good word. We Love Pets (Little very expensive Marine) , PetSmart (no Marine) and the local (25miles away) mom and pop place that gave me all the bad advise. Buy an anemone, here's a tang.. blah blah blah :mad:
 

TRe

Elite Fish
Feb 20, 2005
3,645
1
0
ft. lauderdale
#13
Quote:
5. shouldnt have had an anemone
Why not?
because generally you want a larger tank

How much is many other fish? It's only a 30G, not enough space for more then 4 small fish, according my research.
well put it this way with the fish u named u want to add the clowns last

Thank you Lorna, finally some-one who reads before replying.
:rolleyes:

So who do you listen to? Somebody should be able to give reasonable answers. If not listening to the lfs, why should I believe books, or anything else as a matter of fact?
dont listen to any 1 source gather as much info as possible every one has there own opinion on how things should be done ;) with trial and error you will soon have your own opinion on how it should be done


and let the pissy mood settle.......
*thumbsups
 

BalaShark

Large Fish
Dec 5, 2005
171
0
0
#14
Tre said:
because generally you want a larger tank
I thought it was more about being difficult to keep and good lights?
Tre said:
well put it this way with the fish u named u want to add the clowns last
Tre said:
Good point, due to their aggresive nature I take it.
dont listen to any 1 source gather as much info as possible every one has there own opinion on how things should be done with trial and error you will soon have your own opinion on how it should be done
Thank you, probably the best information yet! Thanks m'man! *thumbsups
 

TRe

Elite Fish
Feb 20, 2005
3,645
1
0
ft. lauderdale
#15
BalaShark said:
I thought it was more about being difficult to keep and good lights?
its a combo of lighting and water quality.... the smaller the tank the harder it is to keep prestine water conditions ;) not to mention most anemones get pretty big and will some times roam around the tank disturbing other corals
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#16
exactly also anemones are really sensitive to any parameter shifts which will be likely to happen more in smaller tanks than large ones as there is more water volumn in large tanks, in other words larger tank volumes are more forgiving.

other than this small misstep you seem to have a good tank and will be able to turn this around and look forward. Yes people can get pretty pissy sometimes, we have all made most of these mistakes and have written about our experiences, that is why we say to read the stickies.....sometimes you can avoid the obvious......being a new aquarist and confronted with a panicky tang in a bag I may have done what you did.......he probably succumbed to the shock.....and if not may have come down with ich later regardless....

my advice is sit back, take a deep breath, set up a quarantine tank and get your stock slowly, quarantining each addition......and you know if you think you want to get a particular fish, sound us out, either someone here has one, or has experience with one.......generally we are here to help, not condemn you......welcome to mft....L)