Innovation or piece of junk?

catfishmike

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
2,614
0
36
Sin City, again...
#2
yea these work,but theres a catch.the same bacteria that consume nitrates also needs deniballs to complement the consuption of nitrates.how the bacteria uses the deniball,i'm not sure.you have to replace the deniballs yearly acording to the manufactures instruction for all the nitrate removers i have seen.i think that if you were going to go to all the trouble of using a denitrtirfyer it would be more logical to use an algal turf scrubber.algae will remove nitrates just as well and dosen't add yet another bacteria to your tank.
now to make an fool of myself after i typed allthat above i reread the site and they don't use deniballs ,so i don't know how this works.i still think a turf scrubber would be a better filter for nitrates though.
 

Lou

Large Fish
Jul 18, 2003
497
0
0
SW Wisconsin
www.waysmeet.org
#3
I'm wondering about pH and the action of the anerobes. Off the top of my head I can't remember, but it seems to me anerobic bacteria are more active in low pH and tend to create that as a microenvironment. I'll have to look it up, but you can't just gas off N and not take into consideration other effects....it's all connected.
 

Lou

Large Fish
Jul 18, 2003
497
0
0
SW Wisconsin
www.waysmeet.org
#4
Nah I was wrong. N gassing off (denitrification) happens at optimum levels at pH around neutral, but it would raise pH. I clipped the following to explain:

Denitrification

Denitrification is the conversion of nitrate to nitrogen gas. Denitrification takes place under anoxic conditions, no free oxygen is available. This usually happens in the secondary clarifier or in a dedicated anoxic tank. (you also have to have N in the NO3 form, which is the case in a cycled tank)
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pH and Alkalinity During Denitrification

The optimum pH for denitrification is 7.0 to 7.5. The denitrification process produces bicarbonate. Theory: 3.57 mg CaCO3/mg N2 gas. Alkalinity gain is about half the loss of nitrification.
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Carbon Source

The denitrifying bacteria require carbon for growth. In the clarifier or another anoxic reactor, the carbon avalable due to endogenous respiration may be enough. If outside sources of carbon are required raw wastewater, methanol, or other sources are sometimes used. (wastewater treatment document...wouldn't do that for aquarium)
 

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wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#7
Denitrators like this are a fairly standard hich tech product - deltec, aquamedic, STM and any number of other equipment manufacturers sell them. They use either a standard bioball I think , though I've seen some using sulphur balls that are consumed. I think if you use bioballs you need to feed 'them'.
They really on a really slow rate (drips per minute!) to work, and I think they can crash quite horribly if you have a powercut. I hear that until they're tuned they're difficult to maintain, but if you're going to have a large, predator marinetank they're handy - if you hav a spare $10000 dollars to spare (yes thats right) Deltec sell a very nice complete tank set that includes all these.
I would guess that for many people the appeal of a Jaubert plenum or DeepSandBed setup is greater, but they still sell a bunch of these things, and they do work. You still need to do water changes as there's more to (marine) life than the nitrogen cycle.
As a final note on bacteria, if you look in Fossa and Nilsson they have bacteria counts for a reef floor sand bed, and in the aerobic part of the floor, there are almost as many bacteria of the type described as 'anaerobic' as there are 'aerobic'. That suggests that the possibility for anaerobic nitrate reduction is always there, but doesn't happen as it's going to be chemically difficult for a weak reductive chemical transfer to happen in oxidative conditions