Is this a good mix?

[crissy7399]

This is a list of the fish that we want to have in our tank eventually when our cycle is done. If anyone would like to comment on this, that would be great!


46Bowfront with several fake ornaments, 1 small drift wood(creating a small cave-like dwelling), ghost tube, regular aquarium gravel, java ferns, anachris, moneywart

potential inhabitants...
1 Elephant Nose
1 Angel Fish
3-4 Clown Loaches (yes, we'll probably have to give them away after several years- or would it be sooner- I can get them around 2")
3 Red Wag Platties
3 ADF
3-4 Otos
6-7 X-ray Tetras (aka Pristella)

I know that at max size it puts me well over 1" per gal., but I'm thinking that the clown loaches would only grow an inch or less each year(please correct me if I'm wrong) so that would give us many years of fun with them.

Does anyone have a comment or suggestion with this list? My LFS seems to always say, "oh ya, they'll work fine together!" which translates to the layman as "haha, let's take her money!"

The Elephant nose will have a ghost tube. And I thought it would be nice to have some schooling fish for the clown loaches. Not sure if I have good "hiding" places for the clown loaches though.

THANKS!!!!!
Crissy
fyi-setup is slightly different now than pic

 

[echoofformless]

Hmm, this is actually one of the more perplexing mixtures I've come across in my years.

This tank could be wonderful, or could be overcrowded, filthy and violent. I really have no idea one way or the other.

 

[crissy7399]

yes, well I am a bit strange, but do note, I did not arrange the whole tank (if you saw the picture), we all-as a family- chose our own ornaments and fish, so it may seem eclectic and cooky.

We wanted to have some unique fish, and fun to watch fish, hence the elephant nose and clown loaches. I am apprehensive of the loaches because of the ich problem, and their max size, but I can get them at buy one get one free ($6.99) till the end of April which is a pretty darn good deal...dont ya think?!?

Thanks for replying though echoofformless!

 

[echoofformless]

As long as you are (and you are) aware that the clowny loaches will likely live long enough to outgrow the tank, I'd get them. They're really cool fish. Just qt them to make sure there's no ick, and then no worries. If they do end up having ick you can try and treat them.


Now here's an opinion I have formulated:

All of the fish you have mentioned like soft, acidic water. Except for the platies. They're kind of the odd man out in your list, being livebearers who like slightly hard, alkaline water.

Perhaps you could replace them with some other small, schooling fish. Hardy tetras of many sorts are readily available and will suit your tank well. Some cyprinids might be okay, such as rasboras. Though I would avoid danios, as they might nip your angel.

I might also want to forego the elephant nose as it can be hostile to smaller fish like tetras and what not. The angel would be a much better choice, so maybe put in two angels?

I might also skip on ADFs. Bigger fish like angels and elephant noses, possibly clown loaches might pick on them. Plus they like still water and might have a hard time keeping up with the feeding frenzy. They're best in still water from what I just read, and in a tank of their own.

Hope this helps.

 

[crissy7399]

Man, you just took out half my list!

That is a good point about the frogs.

Regarding the soft/hard water. I'm pretty sure my water is hard, just know from the feel of it, and the tap ph is 7.8. I'll need to go and have it checked though. My test kit only does the A-Ni-Na-Ph .

Does this mean I really shouldn't have the whole list except the platties! ugh. I have a peice of driftwood(small), maybe I could add another peice or something. Or limit the aeration in the tank?

We really wanted the elephant nose. hmmmmm. guess I'll have to do some more research! just what I wanted to do,

Thanks! If anyone else has suggestions I'd love to hear em!

 

[echoofformless]

Well the whole thing about water softness / hardness, pH. etc is actually debatable. Generally any pH between 6.4 and 7.8 is safe for hardy tropical fish no matter what their "preference." Since so many of these fish are tank raised, they're out of their native conditions and have adapted somewhat. Most will tell you to only worry about having perfect water parameters if you're trying to breed, though I disagree. In my experience, recreating an environment as close to the native as possible makes for significantly happier fishies. But it's not a necessity. (My Philadelphia tap water is hard and alkaline, but I have acid loving fish so I use blackwater [peat filtered] setups to soften and make it more acidic.) The driftwood helps too.

One should generally be more concerned with making sure it's steady than perfect. As long as the pH remains stable, the fishies are happy. In other words you don't have to be a nut like me and make a blackwater tank to keep happy blackwater fish.

But here's a suggestion should you decide to be a little adventurous:

Consider an Amazon blackwater tank. You've already picked tetras, otos and angels. Even though your current plants are not proper "Amazon" species, you could add some in addition to them. (Cabomba, Vals, Hornwort, Swords) Throw in some cory cats, maybe some hatchet fish, and you could be on your way to making a very nice, specialized little setup if you want to take the hobby to that next level. I've got a 55g Amazon blackwater coming along and I'm loving it. Who knows, maybe it will turn out so well that you'll get really into it and consider discus?

But hey, just a suggestion. I'm nerdy and I like toying with these things.

 

[crissy7399]

Thanks, that's an interesting suggestion, but I don't even know what a blackwater tank is-- is it the same as brackish? That said, I'm making myself crazy trying to get figure out ours the way it is, so it would probably be best not to make any drastic changes!

I just called my water co. (we're kinda in the country so I don't know if that will make a difference...) and talked to the guy and he said they don't know KH, but the total hardness is 140. That sounds bad to me. going to go check that out right after I post. The ph is also 7.76, but by the time it reaches me it looks closer to 8.

How hard is the peat thing? Do you have to replace it or do you just stick it in there and it's maintenance free?

THANK YOU!

 

[echoofformless]

Blackwater refers to water with lots of tannic acid and dissolved organics. Simply put, a bit of driftwood and some peat filtration will make a "blackwater" tank; which more closely resembles the native habitat of many Amazon and SE Asian species of fish. No salt; pure fresh.


Hardness isn't "good" or "bad" per se; it's all in relation to the fish you plan to keep, and how steady the water chemistry can stay. Remember, fish will above all prefer clean and stable water rather than water that is being constantly toyed with and modified.

That is why peat filtration is good to use if you're trying to get crazy like I do and recreate the softer water for soft water loving fish. The reason is because it's mild and natural; it softens and acidifies the water very slowly and keeps it that way over time so the fish never get stressed in the process.


But for now, don't let me take you off on a tangent. Let's concentrate on getting your feet wet and making a good tank. You really don't need to do anything like blackwater for now. All of the fish you have chosen will do just fine in your tapwater. It's just that some will do better than others.

 

[crissy7399]

That sounds like a good plan to me. Don't want to get too confused!

Well, rereading your previous post regarding the elephant nose, where did you read about it possibly being aggresive towards fish like tetras. I haven't seen that yet, I haven't found much info on them at all really, except for that they prefer sand substrate (I have reg. aquarium gravel) and their nocturnal, can't be with other electric fish, must have 1 or more than 4.

On the frogs, i talked to my 7 year old about maybe for his birthday getting a little 3 gal and puting the frogs in it with a couple ghost shrimp. He liked that idea.

Do you think it would be horrible of me if I went ahead and got all those fish? The place I would get the elephant nose would take it back and give me 50% credit for it. So, maybe I could try him for a while and see if he's happy, and if not, take him back. Plus I feel sorry for him because he's in a tank with hardly any cover except a big plant in the middle and several angel fish, and he was just hiding vertically behind the plant while I was there. Of course I don't want to move him from one horrible place to another!

thank you again, You've been great! and I just read your post about ranting on LFS's- that was great! bad, but great!