Here's my story. About 2 weeks ago my boyfriend bought me a 20 gallon hex tank with the stand. We talked to the people at the pet store where we bought it because although I have had fish in the past I never really had any luck. He was telling us about the ph levels. We told him that we were on well water. He said that he is also and that his ph is around 7.4-7.6. He said he can't get it any lower, but the fish don't seem to mind it. So, we were under the impression that the ph was all we had to worry about. He told us to set up the tank and wait 3 days before you add fish. On the 3 day after setting up the take I took the ph test kit out and tested the water. the ph was 7.2 which I thought was good because of what the guy had told us about his ph levels. So, we go off to the store to buy our fish. We get a pair of fancy tail guppies. We brought them home, and set the bag in the tank for 15 minutes then added some of our water to the bag and waited another 15 minutes. We wanted to make sure that the guppies were going to do well before we spent a lot of money on fish. We waited about 4 day and the guppies seemed to be doing fine. So we went out and bought 3 more pairs of guppies. The guy that sold us the tank was the one that sold us the first pair of guppies and then the other 3 pairs. We know him well, because we do all our pet shopping there. Anyway, a couple of days later one of the guppies doesn't seem to be doing to well, so I tested the ph again and it still seemed ok. I got online and started looking for answers as to why the fish might be sick. That's when I discovered that you have to know more than just the ph level of the water. Then the next morning when I turned the light on there was 2 more sick guppies. I was feeling really bad, but the guy at the pet store should have told us about the ammonia, and the nitrites and nitrates and cycling the tank. I'm down to 3 male guppies which I put in a 2 gallon tank and I bought some biozyme to put in both the tanks that I have. I also bought a couple of goldfish to put in my big tank to help cycle it. It really bothers me that we spent $300 for the kit, ( tank, stand, filter, heater, airstone plastic plants, gravel,water conditioner and the ph test kit) which I was under the impression, that I had everything I needed to start my tank and keep it health. I really wish that the guy at the pet store had told us all that we needed to know. And he should have told us that we needed to test more than just the ph level. I think that a kit for testing all elements of the water should have been included in the kit. Well, that's my store.
Just starting out.
- Thread starter kimmarie0462
- Start date
HEY! Don't blame the fish guy, there is -so- much information to remember to tell a person who "knows nothing about fish" that any LFS person is bound to forget something. Especially if the person doing the buying doesn't ask about it. If you concentrated your questions around pH, then it may not have even occured to him to think you knew nothing about ammonia levels and cycling the tank. Unless he's a telepath, then he has no excuse.
The best thing you could do for yourself (and the best advice I as an LFS employee could ever give one of my customers) is to RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH! This place is a good start, but there are hundreds of other websites, and books! I love books, and Boarders as well as Amazon.com have awesome selections from beginner basics to advanced aquarist.
Nobody in the hobby knows everything there is to know, and you will be bombarded with conflicting information and ideas. Take your time, do not panic, do not rush, and do what is best for you and your budget. Having a fish tank is like anything else in life. If you want to gain the most out of it (or get your money's worth), you must put in the effort to know as much about it as possible. After all, fish don't grow on trees.
Don't make your LFS employee liable for your fishtank, you'll only end up getting yourself fustrated and not enjoy the hobby.
~~Colesea
The best thing you could do for yourself (and the best advice I as an LFS employee could ever give one of my customers) is to RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH! This place is a good start, but there are hundreds of other websites, and books! I love books, and Boarders as well as Amazon.com have awesome selections from beginner basics to advanced aquarist.
Nobody in the hobby knows everything there is to know, and you will be bombarded with conflicting information and ideas. Take your time, do not panic, do not rush, and do what is best for you and your budget. Having a fish tank is like anything else in life. If you want to gain the most out of it (or get your money's worth), you must put in the effort to know as much about it as possible. After all, fish don't grow on trees.
Don't make your LFS employee liable for your fishtank, you'll only end up getting yourself fustrated and not enjoy the hobby.
~~Colesea
I do agree with you Colesea, it wasn't entirely the guys fault at the pet store, but I think that he should have suggested a bigger test kit or even had one put into the package that we bought, just to bring it to our a tention. I did a lot of reseach when this was happening. I would go to the FAQ and pratically every new site that I went to the first questions were about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. I didn't expect him to tell us everything. I know that it was our responibility to find out things on our own, but these levels kill the fish if they aren't right. You don't think it important that people know this when they are first setting up a tank?
I didn't just concentrate on the ph level. I asked about being on well water, because we have a water softener that uses salt. That's when he talked about the ph level. I think at that point he should have taken us over to where the test kits are and made some suggestions to help us out. But all he did was have the girl put the package together and told us we had everything we needed to start the tank. It would have been good of him to suggest a book or two that would help us also.
Thanks for your imput
Kim
I didn't just concentrate on the ph level. I asked about being on well water, because we have a water softener that uses salt. That's when he talked about the ph level. I think at that point he should have taken us over to where the test kits are and made some suggestions to help us out. But all he did was have the girl put the package together and told us we had everything we needed to start the tank. It would have been good of him to suggest a book or two that would help us also.
Thanks for your imput
Kim
Perhaps lfs employees could consider printing up and posting a notice in their area that goes like this:
"Beginner fish keepers may find the following books and websites useful:"
After which list your fav books/sites. Maybe even this one? *crazysmiley*
That way the busy employee won't have to tell every customer what to read or where to go.
Err, where to go on the web, that is.
"Beginner fish keepers may find the following books and websites useful:"
After which list your fav books/sites. Maybe even this one? *crazysmiley*
That way the busy employee won't have to tell every customer what to read or where to go.
Err, where to go on the web, that is.
The shop I work for does have animal care sheets available to hand out to customers about specific types of fish, and I usually do hand them out. It promotes more questions that are much easier to answer than the broad "tell me everything" type of frantic "what do I do now?" I usually get.
I do think it is important for people to know what will kill their fish, but there are so many thing that could kill fish, it's wasted breath. It does depend alot upon what the customer wants to hear. If I start in on all the "technical difficulties" when trying to make a sale, or about it being common for fish to drop dead from unstable water chemistires and inexperience the first three months, most people back off. I do need to pay my bills after all. The Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmasuicals is $30, and most people don't want to spend all that much money on something so "confusing" the first time around, nor make that type of investment when they are trying to do something "cheap." I do try to include an independant ammonia kit when it is in stock, but again, there is really no one set rule for using an ammonia kit, it is a judgement call on the part of the aquarist what constitutes toxic to their fish. I also reccommend that people only add two fish every two weeks when first starting out (guppies are not one of the fish I reccomend) so they can give the tank a chance to catch up in the cycle process. If they purchase more fish before that, and rush the cycle, I cannot control that *shrug*. I may say, "I don't think that it is a good idea, you might cause and ammonia spike and the fish might not survive..." and they give me that "but I promised the kid/just have to have/the tank looks boring and empty/" excuse, I bag the fish and send them on their way with a "have a nice day."
Two guppies in 20 gallons may survive the initial ammonia spike with the volume of the tank diluting the toxcity. Then you added six more only four days later. The two current guppies didn't acclimate to the ammonia out put of six guppies, nor was a 20 gallon volume able to dilute the spike to less toxic levels. Thus, sick guppies. Also, guppies suck for cycling a tank. Some of the fancy strains are so inbred they die at the drop of a hat. It is just a common misconception that guppies are a "hardy" fish that can "survive anything."
LFS employees only sell you what you want to buy and tell you what you want to hear. I know an argumentative customer from a mile a way, and I just "yes ma'm" "no ma'm" them to death to remain sane.
~~Colesea
I do think it is important for people to know what will kill their fish, but there are so many thing that could kill fish, it's wasted breath. It does depend alot upon what the customer wants to hear. If I start in on all the "technical difficulties" when trying to make a sale, or about it being common for fish to drop dead from unstable water chemistires and inexperience the first three months, most people back off. I do need to pay my bills after all. The Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmasuicals is $30, and most people don't want to spend all that much money on something so "confusing" the first time around, nor make that type of investment when they are trying to do something "cheap." I do try to include an independant ammonia kit when it is in stock, but again, there is really no one set rule for using an ammonia kit, it is a judgement call on the part of the aquarist what constitutes toxic to their fish. I also reccommend that people only add two fish every two weeks when first starting out (guppies are not one of the fish I reccomend) so they can give the tank a chance to catch up in the cycle process. If they purchase more fish before that, and rush the cycle, I cannot control that *shrug*. I may say, "I don't think that it is a good idea, you might cause and ammonia spike and the fish might not survive..." and they give me that "but I promised the kid/just have to have/the tank looks boring and empty/" excuse, I bag the fish and send them on their way with a "have a nice day."
Two guppies in 20 gallons may survive the initial ammonia spike with the volume of the tank diluting the toxcity. Then you added six more only four days later. The two current guppies didn't acclimate to the ammonia out put of six guppies, nor was a 20 gallon volume able to dilute the spike to less toxic levels. Thus, sick guppies. Also, guppies suck for cycling a tank. Some of the fancy strains are so inbred they die at the drop of a hat. It is just a common misconception that guppies are a "hardy" fish that can "survive anything."
LFS employees only sell you what you want to buy and tell you what you want to hear. I know an argumentative customer from a mile a way, and I just "yes ma'm" "no ma'm" them to death to remain sane.
~~Colesea
I wish the shop that we bought our fish tank from had those sheets that they could have handed out to me. I would have done the reseach before I had gotten any fish. We wanted to have a good home for our fish. I'm pretty sure that the guy knows us well enough to know that we don't skimp on our animals. If they need something, we don't care what the cost is.
At least you recommend that you only add 2 fish every 2 weeks. Then If I chose to add more before the recommened amount of time it's on my shoulders. I've been warned ( or at least brought to my attention). I'm not one of those pushy customers. All I wanted was a health happy home for my fish.
I understand about the ammonia now, and I know how playing with the chemistry of the water can be just as fatal. I understand about the cycling of the tank. That's why I have 2 gold fish now. I change about 20 percent of the water every other day. Things seem to be ok now.
I'm not an argumentative customer. I did the research myself ( after the fact) I didn't go back and complain to the pet store. I got what I needed to know from the net. Now I'll continue on from there. Hopefully a whole lot wiser.
Just to let you know. I was in retail ( customer service) and had to deal with the public. I know what they can be like, that's why I'm not like that.
Kim
At least you recommend that you only add 2 fish every 2 weeks. Then If I chose to add more before the recommened amount of time it's on my shoulders. I've been warned ( or at least brought to my attention). I'm not one of those pushy customers. All I wanted was a health happy home for my fish.
I understand about the ammonia now, and I know how playing with the chemistry of the water can be just as fatal. I understand about the cycling of the tank. That's why I have 2 gold fish now. I change about 20 percent of the water every other day. Things seem to be ok now.
I'm not an argumentative customer. I did the research myself ( after the fact) I didn't go back and complain to the pet store. I got what I needed to know from the net. Now I'll continue on from there. Hopefully a whole lot wiser.
Just to let you know. I was in retail ( customer service) and had to deal with the public. I know what they can be like, that's why I'm not like that.
Kim
Ouch, owner/managers are the worst. They're the ones with the real profit motive. I was at this LFS around me and this guy that was most likely the owner was trying to sell some wavering beginner a pair of discus, saying about how "easy" discus were to take care of. I left that place rather quickly.
Well, I hope everything does work out for you and you do find an LFS that is up to par with your standards.
~~Colesea
Well, I hope everything does work out for you and you do find an LFS that is up to par with your standards.
~~Colesea
I didn't think that this owner would be like that. But I guess in the end it's comes down to the almighty dollar.
There is only 2 pet shops close to us. The other one is really bad. Their tanks are really dirty and most of them have at least one dead fish in it. A lot of the fish have some kind of damage to their fins, and they don't swim right.
As for finding a shop that is up to my standards?? I don't think that will happen. I will find out as much information on my own before I buy the fish.
I really enjoy this site, and I have found quit a few other sites with good information on then.
Thanks for the chat.
Kim.
There is only 2 pet shops close to us. The other one is really bad. Their tanks are really dirty and most of them have at least one dead fish in it. A lot of the fish have some kind of damage to their fins, and they don't swim right.
As for finding a shop that is up to my standards?? I don't think that will happen. I will find out as much information on my own before I buy the fish.
I really enjoy this site, and I have found quit a few other sites with good information on then.
Thanks for the chat.
Kim.